The comments section on Spiritual Wisdom is Good - Part 4 seems to be filling up rather quickly. I have started this new page so that there will continue to be room to post comments. Please post your comments on this page now (Part 5) instead of on Part 4.
The more I read about the Liebe family, the more sickened I become. How are they in ministry? Why is their behavior accepted (or overlooked) by so many? They have altered and destroyed so many people's faith. It's dispicable. They know better... They also know their fate is questionable at best. And to see them in public everything is good as gold on the outside. They are creepy! They walk around like the perfect, happy, little family smiling at everyone they see. Denial.... Everyone knows the truth about you Liebe's! Please spare us the show!
ReplyDeleteIts funny how as the financial goal isn't being met, the message for today was tithing. Presented through video by Robert Morris from Recommendation of Oskbrook church. The message was msinly if you give your firstfruits to the church, God will bless the rest. Comments?
ReplyDeleteThis church as NO faith.
DeleteDon't they know that God will provide?
Ha! And you didn't walk out?
DeleteShow me a financial sheet showing where the money is going, who is on payroll, and that the missionaries related to Brad are not receiving funds, and I will start tithing to Pathways again.
DeleteI agree! If you don't have anything to hide. You shouldn't have a problem showing anything!
DeleteNot surprising. Of course that is exactly what they are going to preach on right about now. Get that money coming back into the church!! I'll bet they used all of the usual scriptures too.
ReplyDeleteSeriously "first fruits" teaching that is running rampant through the word of faith camp. It brings results so I guess the ends justifies the means even though this is a horrible interpretation of scripture. And, are we not sick of Brad pushing the tithe downour throats for four years so he could live high on the hog. Seriously between this weeks message and the mediocre preaching from last week I am sad to say I am not sure how long I can hang in there. I need to be fed on Sundays.
ReplyDeleteOMG talking about money again!
ReplyDeleteThe timing of this message, which was very, very good, shows that Pathways is run more like a business. Bad move guys! It is really obvious now.
ReplyDeleteWhere is the message on adultery????
Is money more important?
So not to be misunderstood, the timing of the message is horrible.
DeleteThe actual message was and is very good.
Even though it was very brief, this is the first time "in church" that I ever heard a pastor talk about the Malachi 3 curse for robbing God. If Blessings are real, so are curses. A curse is the opposite of a blessing.
The truth is you can't afford not to tithe! Tithing is good. It is just difficult right now to tithe to a church like this. I am sure many of you agree.
Can I get an Amen?
Do you wonder why sin is NEVER talked about at this church? I never hear any of the worlds sins preached.
DeleteLove of money, lying, adultry, cheating.....what's up Pathways. Maybe talking about these through a biblical perspective will keep EVERYONE in check! Or is it too hard when your guilty.
The sheep need to be fed. We are here for more than tithing.
I thought it was great!
ReplyDeleteIt was great? Really? Just more money talk?
DeleteI can get that at any sales meeting.
What about Salvation? Sacrifice? Gods love of selfless acts?
Helping the poor first? "The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.' Matt 25:40.
Other sermons are desperately needed - false preachers, greed, adultery, deceit, lying. So many sermons where this place falls REALLY short.
This church should give one out of 4 donations to the poor. (St Josephs food pantry for example). Show your faith. Dont' worry, God WILL provide for you.
This is the church of money first. The DEVIL is there.
The pastors that are left have NO faith that GOD will provide for them.
Run far and fast from this place. There are so many other excellent churches in the area.
May 28th - the day of the pathways church meeting - Please notice the chapters selected for the 2013 Pathways bible reading plan on May 28th.
ReplyDeleteProverbs 7-9 and Romans 7
Proverbs 7:1-5 a continuation of the warning of adultery from chapter 6
Proverbs 7:6-27 "The Crafty Harlot"
verses 24-27 "24 Now therefore, listen to me, my children;
Pay attention to the words of my mouth:
25 Do not let your heart turn aside to her ways,
Do not stray into her paths;
26 For she has cast down many wounded,
And all who were slain by her were strong men.
27 Her house is the way to hell,[a]Descending to the chambers of death."
Proverbs 8.....The Excellence of Wisdom
Proverbs 8:13 - "the fear of the Lord is to hate evil;Pride and arrogance and the evil way and the perverse mouth I hate."
Proverbs 9
The Way of Folly
13 A foolish woman is clamorous;
She is simple, and knows nothing.
14 For she sits at the door of her house,
On a seat by the highest places of the city,
15 To call to those who pass by,
Who go straight on their way:
16 “Whoever is simple, let him turn in here”;
And as for him who lacks understanding, she says to him,
17 “Stolen water is sweet,
And bread eaten in secret is pleasant.”
18 But he does not know that the dead are there,
That her guests are in the depths of hell.[a]
Romans 7
20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
Kelly Dudley and Brad Liebe at minimum have a spirit of Jezebel working within them.
Jezebel is a very controlling, manipulating and sexual spirit!
http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/all-women-bible/Jezebel-No-1
http://www.jonhamilton.org/jezebel.htm
Regarding this post from the previous blog section, PART 4; I would like to ask you to please make this information available to the public, so all the speculation and gossip can be put to rest. An addition, if Pathways members could have access to this "letter" then our meeting on the 28th could be much more effective in finding out the truth. At the very least, please come to the meeting and pass out copies of this letter to members as they arrive.
ReplyDeleteWe desire to know what we are really dealing with.
AnonymousMay 25, 2013 at 7:24 AM
There was information given about Brads long term affair with his sister in law - details about the money he had ripped off in Florida and was continuing to rip off at Pathways - and the suspicion of current extra marital affairs that were taking place now and needed to be investigated. This information came from a very credible source and was given to or fell in the hands of:
Jim Bradford - Executive leader in the AG
Larry Liebe and his Presbyters.
Pathways Board.
Several Pathways staff members and AG Wisc District staffers.
Also, this information was first given to Brad so that he could do the right thing. He ran and hid like a school girl.
As for the others.
Jim Bradford did nothing because he was afraid that Brad would sue the AG.
Larry Liebe tried to get the AG ministry papers pulled from the person that gave the information.
JJ Eaton sent a very threatening letter from Pathways lawyers that threatened legal action.
Everyone else was silent.
Not one of these people except for Jim Bradford picked up the phone and talked to this person with the information.
That said, if these people are not honest with their constituents and release the information -- including the letter from JJ Eaton -- it will be released on the internet soon.
Bad service yesterday. Tithing tithing tithing. Pastor Robert Morris who was very confusing was on via video and u could just tell he was a polished con man. Large church in Texas. Bad timing by Pathways regarding sermon. Meeting will be interesting but I have feeling u won't be able to stand up and ask a question as they want u to submit questions. It would have to make them think on their feet. Step forward and take charge Pathways!! Sadly I don't see it.
ReplyDeleteNo, you're not going to get an amen from me or from anyone else who really knows the Bible and what it teaches about tithing. Do some direct biblical research. Quit relying on what pastors tell you about tithing. Read the above referenced articles (on Part 4 of this same blog). Tithing was an Old Testament law. It does not apply to the New Testament. Tithing was a law that was nailed to the cross when Jesus died just like all of the other OT laws. Giving generously is biblical but tithing per se is no longer necessary. Funny how the pastors of all churches carry the tithing law over to current day times but not the rest of the OT laws. Original research is necessary. You have been deceived and tricked into accepting this.
ReplyDeleteIf they announce on the 28th that they in the process of picking a new pastor, I will be appalled. We are no where near ready to bring anyone into this mess. It wouldn't be fair to any pastoral candidate or their family. And certainly we can't trust the board or the search committe to be honest with the candidate(s).
ReplyDeleteIf we are down a senior pastor ($200k), his wife ($80k), plus Gary (maybe $50k), we should be saving about 6k a week. Now take out the support for all of Brad buddy's (our missionaries) and we should be in a good spot, even with lower tithes.
ReplyDeleteNice theory. You're still paying severance salaries and health insurance for a lot of people who are no longer employed there. And if the church loaned money to Liebe for houses or cars, that was supposed to be back, you can only assume that Brad will not be paying it back. I like your positive attitude though!
DeletePathways please stop looking at this entire situation with rose-colored glasses... You are being used for your money, nothing more.
Don't forget Mike Randerson is still on the payroll, too.
DeleteMany have complained about Brandon and what exactly his role is in the church. He is a horrible speaker, that tries to preach using the same style as Brad, which he does poorly. What is he getting paid? What does he do? He has a big fancy office for what?
ReplyDeleteSure he's a nice guy but the there should be much more.
Total agreement. What exactly does a "Communications Pastor" do? I'm guessing salary wise at 80-100k. Getting in front of the masses for 5 min a service to introduce the reel? C'mon. May be a nice guy but let's get real here. Absurd. I have a feeling there will be a lot of frustrated people at the meeting tonite and am not convinced any real answers will be given regarding Liebe, the board and the new pastor issue.
DeleteBrandon gets by on his good looks and charm... just like his brother. I can't believe he WANTS to stay?!? I think the majority agrees that he needs to go. All he is a snitch to his family. Keeping them in the loop of everything that is done and said. If you think he can be trusted you people are so unbelievably naive!!!! He was just with his whole family over the holiday weekend in Waupaca. You don't think they discussed the situation and upcoming meeting?
DeleteI for one hope that we have a brave soldier to stand up at tonights meeting and demand an open forum. If one stand, may will follow. I have only been a church member for a year now and don't think I can "lead the stance", but I would definitley stand next to the person that does. They are not going to have an open forum from what I understand and therefore none of our "real" questions will get answered. We need to stop this Power that the leaders have and ask the tough questions. After tonight if my family isn't satisfied, we will be moving to another church. Any suggestions?
ReplyDeleteThey can't stop you from speaking out loud. What are they going to do if you stand up and start asking questions? Will they have armed guards waiting in the wings ready to escort you out? It's your church, do what you must to find out the truth. Do not leave until you feel satisfied in your answers. If they ask you to leave simply because you have additional questions they didn't address, then you have your answer... Bye Bye!!
DeleteThis is nothing more than a power trip on the board and staff's part. They are being pumped up by lawyers and feel good about their position. There is power in numbers, so I think the congregation has the upper hand here. Don't be bullied into the corner! Fight for what you believe in! Fight for what is RIGHT!
I suggest someone tapes the whole thing on their phone for future reference. The media might find it intriguing at some point as well! The truth will always prevail... one way or another!
I echo what a previous poster said. We are in no shape to be entertaining a search for a new lead pastor. We have significant house cleaning to do before we bring anyone in. Our church drastically needs to adjust its bylaws and governing structure. If we want our church to go on and become useful for the kingdom, we need changes to take place. Once those changes are in place then and only then can we consider looking at resumes and candidates. We have had the “cart before the horse” mentality in the past and we cannot afford to make more mistakes. If anyone advises us differently they are completely wrong.
ReplyDeleteWe must:
1. Have full financial disclosure to members
2. Change our bylaws regarding the pastoral search process
3. Change our bylaws to reflect terms on the elected board members
All three of these items have numerous details that will need to be fleshed out over time. To move forward before these items are changed would be disastrous. Frankly, the easy part of this equation is finding a new lead pastor. The hard part is getting the house clean before we do so.
Pathways bylaws for adding board members (part e) June 2007 version:
ReplyDeletee. Appointment or Replacement
When new Board members are required, the current Board places a notice for nomination to the church body in the bulletin for 3 weeks. The nominees shall be reviewed by the Senior Pastor and the Board Chair. A committee shall conduct interviews with Board candidates and thereafter, move a candidate to a Board vote with a unanimous vote of the committee. A Board vote to elect a Board member can be conducted at any regularly scheduled Board meeting. A unanimous vote of the Board is required for Board members to be installed and the responsibility of new members shall begin upon receipt by the Board of the signed statement of their being in agreement with the Bylaws, including Attachment 1 and the Standards of Conduct.
Section 3. SENIOR PASTOR
ReplyDeletea. Appointment
The Senior Pastor, an officer of Pathways Church, shall be appointed by the Board of Directors and shall direct the programs of Pathways Church, Inc. The Senior Pastor shall report at Board meetings, or as often as the Board shall require, the progress and problems of the current activities.
b. Responsibilities
The Senior Pastor shall in accordance with the Board policies be responsible for hiring, supervising, and the release of staff members. Further, the Senior Pastor is responsible to the Board for the overall supervision of the program and the implementation of Board policies and directives to insure the efficient operation of Pathways Church in a caring Christian context. In the case of unusual problems the Senior Pastor may call upon individual Board members for advice or request an Executive Committee meeting for consultation.
c. Term
The appointment of the Senior Pastor is indefinite.
d. Removal
The Senior Pastor may be removed at any time with a vote of at least two thirds (2/3) of the Board, whenever in its judgement the best interest of the corporation will be served thereby. In this case full compensation will continue for ninety (150) days after the Board action.
"In this case full compensation will continue for ninety (150) days after the Board action"
DeleteToo funny, looks like it originally said 90 days and someone decided to change it to 150 while forgetting to update written amount. Sloppy!
WOW! We have done this for years down here in FM. I hope you have not allowed Brad to put this in place at pathways. Just another way to pad the pockets of the lead pastor. As if the high salary wasn't enough.
ReplyDeleteThe Honor The Pastor Scam
Money focused churches tend to be run on cultic patterns. One of these cultic patterns is the division of the church into exclusive rings: the all-powerful pastor perched at the center, the inner-ring of sycophants around him consisting of the pastor’s lieutenants and the church’s privileged class (the rich, the famous and the very pretty), and the outer-ring of the ordinary folk who would love to be in the inner-ring, but are not.
The power of those in the inner-ring is determined by the amount of favor the pastor bestows upon them.
To get more favor the inner-ring will employ many favor-currying measures, one of which is a scam called “Honoring the Pastor”. It works this way, the inner-ring will figure out what the pastor would like, say for his birthday. Then the inner-ringers will squeeze the outer-ringers for the money to buy this item.
Using this method pastors have been “given”: diamond rings for their wives, cash gifts, jet skis, luxury cruises, motorbikes, cars, holidays, boats, and a myriad of other expensive luxury items.
Are the pastors complicit in this game? Of course they are. They couldn’t demand the gift openly themselves, but seek plausible deniability by having their inner-ring lieutenants do the work. Of course they could refuse the gift when it is presented, and make it clear that they don’t want the Lord’s money spent on such things again, but they never do. These pastors exchange their favor, for cash from their congregation.
Your Counter Strategy: Unless it’s something reasonable like a bunch of flowers for the pastor’s wife, don’t give to this sort of fund raising.
Unfortunately I can't be at the meeting tonight as I have to take my son to soccer but will someone please post what they say and happens tonight? I am very curious as what will be said. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteI had emailed a different church on Friday asking what their position was on tithing and salaries. Granted this is a small church but it is a place I am thinking about visiting.
ReplyDeleteBelow is his response. I have to say, what he
wrote is how I feel a church should be run.
Hi,I am the head pastor and you need to understand that we operate on a very small budget (less than $15,000 annually). No members of the fellowship (including myself) receive a salary. We all have fulltime jobs in which we use the income that is generated from there to fund the church. Any extra funds are used to help the needy in our community and abroad (We do support a small church in the village of Rakwana in Sri Lanka). I actually encourage others to give to whatever organization they feel is in the most need, so they "divvy" up their tithes accordingly. Keeping a small budget helps us actually use the money God has blessed us with most effectively. And if anyone were to want to see the books, they most certainly can. Sometimes it happens.
If you wouldn't mind, could you tell us the name of this church?
DeletePerhaps at this point the most good that this forum can achieve is to help us all to find a God fearing, Bible believing congregation that we can be part of. I would appreciate if anybody could leave names of churches and (most importantly) why you would recommend a specific church.
I am so sick and tired of hearing people defend the inane behavior of the Pathways leadership and organizational structure. Why would anybody want to be part of that? Why would anyone want to fellowship with someone who wants to be part of that? The whole thing is crazy. Stop making excuses and start acting like the body of Christ. If they won't change, leave them to be judged but don't go down with them.
The problem I see above is the term "Appointment" rather than "voted in by the membership." The senior pastor should never be appointed by anyone especially a board that is appointed and not voted on. These bylaws need some major changes.
ReplyDeleteThis is not going to happen since we learned last night that pathways is not a congregation ruled church, it is a Pastor controlled Church, the Pastor has full control and board is there to protect pastor and church corporation. the board controls the business of the church not the congregation, so you will never see a vote from congregation or a revealing of salaries which are determined by board. churches have different structures. pathways feels that congregation led can cause even more problems and there could be some truth to that. But a board ran or pastor ran can have problems too. because in this case pastor was not held accountable and thought he could do what he wants. This is a problem also in salaries. the board found the average and went on the high side. and pastor is free to pick own team and pay them including His wife, the board did say last night they may be making changes to this policy.
DeleteCould we possibly mean less to our church leadership?
DeleteI left Pentecostal church and went back to my roots. Though I do miss the amazing music and fancy productions, I feel God is far more respected and better served in my old church. I can trust the internal structure to utilize tithe/giving income in the best way possible for helping our community and overseas missions. Atleast now I know I am not being taken advantage of or lied to. And yes, it's good exercise!
DeleteWe were members of Pathways for about 2 years, we started when Brad was just introduced to the church. We moved away from the area, but we still keep in touch with friends from the church who are all very affected by this.
ReplyDeleteThere is a Need for transparency in this church, while members, we NEVER received a spending analysis of where the money was spent. We did receive quarterly our records of personal giving, but never a break down on where the funds where spent. I know that Pathways has grown in the past four years, but really how Many paid employees does a church of that size need?? When we left
they had 5 paid pastors, and I see now there are 9 administ. staff...really?? Brad's goal as we were leaving was the "redoing of the parking lot" which he brought up umpteen times. I always thought to myself, what about feeding the poor, housing the homeless, etc.
This church needs healing. I hope it comes tonight in the members of the board resigning their positions. As for the tithing sermon this week. I wouldn't be giving to Pathways until transparency is there. I forgive Brad, as we are all sinners, and all fall short...however, I don't want to see him pastoring another church again. Find another profession, get yourself some help, and get right with God and with your family Brad.
I agree with previous posters, Pathways, give your tithes to a homeless person (yes, they do exist in Appleton!), Moore OK could use them, the local food pantry in Appleton.
ReplyDeleteIf Jesus came back tomorrow, would He really be concerned about the state of the parking lot? or the furniture in the church?
Did anyone else go to the meeting last night? Just wondering your thoughts! Personally I'm very saddened by the whole thing & how they handled it and skated around all the questions!
ReplyDeleteSo who else was satisfied with last nights meeting?
ReplyDeleteOne million-yes one million toward salaries and benefits out of a 1.7 million budget and nearly one third of that goes to Brad and his wife.
ReplyDeleteTo say Jana had an office and in anyway deserved to be on payroll as a full time salary of 80,000 was a miss in admitting an area where the board did not provide oversight. JJ was to good a friend to be objective;that is clear.
Then they have the audacity to say the budget challenges are due to the mortgage. Jeff Smith was a spin doctor last night of the worst kind. JJ ssys they do research every two years. What church or company says a salary of 200,000 in appropriate in Appleton WI. This is not San Francisco. This is a place where the average wage is closer to 48,000.
The financial report was a huge scam.
At least JJ admiited he knew about an affair. However he did hide it from the rest of the board. Is that the kind of person who should be leading this board. Saying "I am sorry" is not enough; like Brad, consequences are in order. He hid, he lied and is still withholding the truth about the finances. He must step down ASAP. The truth is eeeking out about what was known but we are far from full disclosure---especially the money and how it was handled. Jeff Smith talked about office staff-so Anna Harrington was the inside cover person. Very convenient that she is now leaving to move to another state.
you must not have listened to everything that was said, because it was admitted that having Jana on staff was a concern and one that the board is addressing going forward (senior pastor's ability to hire whomever he/she wants). Also, did you not hear Jeff say that there are several deficiencies in the financial policies, another area the board is addressing? They have contacted an OUTSIDE CPA firm to give recommendations of areas that need to be addressed with new policies. He even said that going forward there will be a yearly audit by an outside agency. I guess I don't understand what you want? They admitted there were mistakes, and the board is looking at it's policies and making changes; and lets not forget that the person at the head of this mess, is GONE... there's no way to go back and undo the mess Brad and Jana Liebe made, but we CAN move forward.
DeleteAs far as JJ making mistakes, he admitted them and even acknowledged he is in violation of the by laws by serving as the chair this long, but no one wants to step up to take the job.
So, instead of wasting time on this blog why don't apply to be on the board? if you aren't going to be part of the change stop pointing fingers.
AMEN. Finally someone whose ears are not full of wax. You heard the same thing I did. For all of the JJ bashers step up and take his place......or shut up.
DeleteOh my gosh! You people are snowed! Blind! In desperate need of decrement! How can you defend lying? Brad and Jana were not the problem... they exposed the problem by taking advantage of it's poor structure! You can't possibly move forward until the core issues are dealt with. This is NOT about "bashing" people. These people (JJ, Brad, all the Liebe family, Tripp, Randerson) all knew what they were doing! They are NOT victims! They are liers with an agenda. It's hardly bashing when you are simple stating the facts about their unethical personalities! Please stop burying your head in the sand. Please see it for what it really is. It's bad... really, really bad to the core.
DeleteTo the post above that wanted the name of the church I was referring to (for some reason when I hit reply, nothing happens)- it is called In The Shelter Of His Arms and is located in Kaukauna. It's in an older, smaller building. I was told they have about 50 chairs and about 3/4's of them get full.
ReplyDeleteThere worship/service time is at 10:00 am on SATURDAY.
Below is the link to their website:
www.intheshelterofhisarms.com
Any thoughts on last nights meeting? I am trying to get a grip on what I heard.
ReplyDeleteI don't see any update on what happened at the meeting. Did they put a gag order on everyone?
ReplyDeleteMay 29th if you want to know so bad what was said then you should have gone to the meeting. If that was not possible then you need to know that NOTHING gets posted UNTIL the administrator of the blog approves it. Heck, it could be days before a comment is written and finally published. That has not been the case but damn.......hold on to your pants. You will see there were several comments dated after yours. Just can wait for the scuttlebutt. Great Christian you are, however in Gods eye you are NO better than Brad. Why don't you go get a life.
DeleteAre you surprised about that meeting? Did you REALLY think they would have a complete open forum where everyone could talk and ask questions and say anything they wanted to say? Of course not! You should have known in advance that it would have been very carefully controlled. They wanted the questions in advance and then picked only the easiest ones to answer. They only had this meeting because they had to. I'm sure they really didn't even want to have it. Damage control is the name of the game. Keep those tithes and offerings coming in. Why, oh why, would anyone continue to go there? It's corrupt and the leaders don't really have any plans to change anything of significance. Is it really true that all those ex-pastors are still on salary? Are you kidding me!! That's insane. Like being on a permanent paid vacation. Who wouldn't want that?
ReplyDeleteIf you did not submit any questions then you have nothing to bitch about.
DeleteWas there even ONE person who was satisfied with the meeting? That would be shocking. It would also show a complete lack of any spiritual discernment.
ReplyDeleteWow! That's a pretty bold statement. If anyone disagrees with you they "show a complete lack of any spiritual discernment."
DeleteGood thing is you sound like you made up your mind.
I have a question. Is Brad's close friend, Michelle, who has been his secretary for many, many years, still at the church? Did you all know that she was with him way back when (when he was only a youth pastor) in Florida at First Assembly. She even followed him to Copenhagen when he went there. Then, she returned back with him to First Assembly when he came back. Then........she followed him to Pathways when he went there too. Does anyone see anything sort of strange about that? Does she still work there now? If so, you have yet another spy in your midst; along with Brandon Liebe.
ReplyDeleteMichelle left about 18 months ago. She has severe cancer.
DeleteMichelle has been gone for at least two years.
DeleteI have always thought their relationship was a bit to close for comfort. And since she and Jana were NOT the best of friends, I assume Jana has her suspicions as well!
DeleteI went to Pathways when Pastor Mike was there and for the first time I had a church home. I was very involved with the Connections area. Once Pastor Mike left and Brad took over the feeling in the church changed dramatically and I no longer felt welcome at all. I stopped going 2 weeks after Brad became pastor. I was heartbroken to lose my church, but it was no longer a good place. I drive 1/2 hour to Green Bay Community Church and love it there. If I want to go local, I go to Alliance Church.
ReplyDeleteI for one was satisfied! It confirmed what this blog has been saying for months. Brad is a thief, adulterer and liar. The board should all step down immediately. The bylaws need major change and correction. The church needs to be taken back by the people and run in such a manner. Let’s clean house Pathways!!!! The time is now for a fresh start. The sooner we get the board out and elect new officials the sooner we can change bylaws thus clearing the way for a new lead pastor.
ReplyDeleteI guarantee that Brad was skimming off of the top again. I am considering calling the local authorities once we have proof that money was misappropriated and skimmed off of the top. This must end!
I was satisfied as well. They are being as transparent as they can. The pastor search is including the current staff and members of the church (even though not required in the bylaws). Bylaws are being changed to clear the grey areas that Brad exploited.
DeleteMichelle Vanderlinden is Asst to lead pastor at Pathways.
ReplyDeleteAnna Harrinton, Dir of Business Admin.
Jo Ellen Schwandt, community Outreach Dir.
Georgie Henning, Asst. to Business Admin.
If I am not mistaken...all of these followed him from Florida? they have been there the same length of time as Brad.
You are mistaken on ALL four counts. Please don't drag these women into the mess. They were all at Pathways before Brad came.
DeleteWhere did you come up with such a lie. Jo Ellen had been part of the church building long before it way Pathways. Michelle Vanderlinden took replaced the other Michelle when she left. Before that she was not employed by Pathways. Stuff like this needs a to stop.
DeleteThere was no gag order, but they did not have an open forum, which are usually not productive. They did offer to stay and answer any questions after the meeting, which they did do.
ReplyDeleteDuring the meeting they attempted to answer the pre submitted questions. JJ admitted that he knew of an affair but it was in the past and dealt with, and apologized for not sharing with board. He also received a letter from a pastor who was in an affair July 2012. Which said pastor brad was in an affair also, but no proof could be in stone. He had flown to Florida to investigate about the embezzling, but could not get conclusive evidence of this. In hindsight He wishes he would have done more. the chairman of board has 2 year term- he has been on 4 years. I didn't understand if he was just a regular board member the first two years, but he is staying on to help and there is no one else who wanted the position.
they went over budget, but will not disclose individual salaries, because they can cause problems when one makes more than another. Pathways is not a congregation led church, it is a pastor led and board led, so you will not have a say in business matters- that has been their structure. they did say they might look into changing or adding policies. Like the fact that pastor can choose his team and has full reign of that and can hire relatives. Jana was on the payroll and had an office from the beginning. Said she was in charge of women's ministries. (I don't think anyone saw that, but it was part of the pastors freedom in this structure.)
Lance talked about his decision to leave- that it was supposed to be announced when all this happened with Brad, so he chose to stay on to help church get through this time without pastor- which I think was admirable.
I saw a lot of people leave with questions and seemed confused and I saw a lot of the inner circle people stay on supporting. I think a lot of people still feel there is not full disclosure. I would advise you to ask your questions of JJ Eaton or the pastors- they were willing to openly share.
Brad did get a severance- this is a legal thing they said to protect the Church and finalize things legally- normally done in business. They did say they seek the lord and try to do things biblically, but it is a business 501c3 and there are things and procedures that need to happen. I did see some things clearer after attending, but still have reservations about the large salaries and stewardship. I am still wondering if they are doing what they can for the body or are they trying to protect a business. A church this big does take a lot of work to operate, but there needs to be some changes that would focus more on the gospel than on business. I feel a church with the income it has, should have mortgage paid off and should be giving at least half of income to missions and ministry- 3/4 of a million should be sufficient for personnel. Something doesn't seem right
They have hired a very reliable service to find a new Lead pastor, this was done to make it easier, quicker, and because there is low trust in board. The board, a committee from church leadership and pastors(I think will vote on final three candidates.
Again, I urge you to ask questions of board, if you are not satisfied, then you will have to decide what to do. I don't know what to do myself- this will take prayer. I do know there is a lot of gossip and stretched truth on this blog which doesn't help anyone. Please proceed with prayer and Love, not judgment. This is hard on everyone, no need to make it harder.
Proceed with prayer and love, not judgment?
DeleteThis group has proven they are not capable of running this church. Over and over and over again.
So we give them more chances to do it right? So many other churches do it right. They could have learned from them in stead of learning on the job.
I know of extremely sick people that had to decide on whether to take their meds, feed their kids or tithe.
Most importantly, we are talking about peoples SALVATION here. Not a corporation!!! There are people that have their faith shaken.
If this means the end of pathways, fine. It's not God's church anyway. It's brad and the boards church.
They still have brad's yes men and women running it.
I'd rather see a new God Focused church in its place than go there again.
For GOD's sake - this is so ridiculous.
That building on Evergreen is only a building. Gods church isn't a building!!!!
If JJ E. knew about the affair, and admits it...he needs to resign or be removed from his position. As Christians, we are called to hold one another accountable...NOT cover up for sins of one another.
ReplyDeleteAnd to my knowledge, Jana, did NOT have an office. The only thing I remember her doing was hosting some tea party/woman meetings and that was rarely.
Why is the Post Crescent Newspaper not covering this as a story, years ago, they
have covered the stories of embezzlement in the Catholic church in Neenah (very close to Appleton) that priest actually went to jail and he was like in his 70's at the time. It
takes years and sometimes a lifetime for church members to recover from such betrayal, having some accountability is a good thing.
Was told by board member last night that Jana did have an office and salary.
DeleteThree options-
Board member was lying
(not likely that they would make that up and share it)
Option 2- Jana didn't know about office and salary- only Brad did
Option 3 Jana lied when she said she didn't work at Church
You are right about the rarity of the tea parties, so she shouldn't of had an office and salary, but did.
There are so many unanswered questions- We may never know the truth in this life
Michelle is gone but THE CHURCH paid her medical bills and up until about a month ago were still paying her cell phone bill. Hush money?!
ReplyDeleteAnd how do you know this? Statements like this are worthless without factual confirmation. Get some stones.
DeleteI geneticaly don't have stones.You need to get some manners. Ask for detailed church financials. Ask Anna is she called to tell Michelle to tell that her phone was being cancelled in the last quarter. It's their; but hidden. Will Annna come forward before she leaves?
DeleteI think the meeting went as well as it could. There is no perfect solution. JJ admitted that he has served too long, but no one else wants the job. With what happened that won't be an issue anymore. Everyone admitted there was too much grey area. This wouldn't be a problem, but we got a pastor who took advantage of every grey area he could. Lance proved to be a stand up guy. Gary is coming back part-time. We are moving slowly towards a new pastor and have put tons of checks and balances in place.
ReplyDeleteAll the speakers were guarded, but Brad had people there. If they said one thing wrong they would open the church to liability. They did state that nothing illegal was noticed in the financials, but they were many questionable items (basically, legally I can't say yes or Brad was careful to skirt the law)
Overall, I feel good. They are serious about making many corrections. This was a costly lesson on giving a pastor too much control. Alot of trust was given to Brad and Brad abused it in everyway he could.
After what has happened at Pathways, I for one feel that the Church Body of Pathways should be doing the vote for the new pastor. Really, the board has proven unreliable with multiple responsibilities in the past and presently.
ReplyDeleteMichelle may indeed be gone from the church, but according to Pathways website, she is still listed under current "staff".
As far as Jana having an office at the church office building, I personally volunteered some time in that office and Never saw her office or her present there in a working capacity. The lies need to stop...really.
Wrong "Michelle". Michelle Vanderlinden IS on staff, not Brad's buddy Michelle Dellassandro.
DeleteHere are a few facts:
ReplyDelete1. The Kelly Dudley affair was at least 3.5 years and that is if it has stopped.
2. It lasted at least well into Brads time at Pathways.
3. Kelly, Brad and JJ Eaton are lying and saying it was pre-Pathways. IT WAS NOT
4. Brad was also having an affair with someone else during his time at Pathways (at least one other person).
5. Brad was stealing from Pathways just like he was in Florida.
6. JJ Eaton was warned about all of this and called it not credible and hired lawyers.
7. Larry Liebe was also working to cover this up because he was given the same information.
8. JJ Eaton still wants to be on the board, even though people want him off, to cover his tracks now that he is seeing that what he called "not credible" is being shown as the truth.
9. Let me reiterate the fact that Brad was taking money again from Pathways. Get an outside source to investigate or JJ will cover it up. Everything else has been true ... why would you question this?
I'm an active member at Pathways and have served in leadership roles (not a board member). I was present for the entire discussion last night. Like most of the congregation, I learned about the situation from the leadership and staff after critical decisions were already made. I don't agree with all the past decisions and completely agree that bylaws, goverance structure, and accounting practices need to change. I have heard personally from the church leadership and in the larger group meeting last night that there will be an outside CPA firm hired to advise on necessary accounting changes. I heard it stated from numerous leaders that church bylaws and governance needs to change and decisions must be made with spiritual discernment. This isn't a corporation, but rather a church. There was a clear call for board members last night - we need people who fit Biblical qualifications and are willing to provide much needed leadership. There are consequences to sin - I'm confident that God is in control. Pathways didn't grow rapidly over the past 2-3 years because of Brad, it grew because God has been at work in the lives of our people. Make no mistake, this is God's church - it is not Brad Liebe's church. God used a flawed man and other leaders to reach hundreds of people for Christ and this work will continue. I'm excited to see what God has planned for Pathways in the future. God doesn't honor slander and gossip, but will bless this church if we humble ourselves and seek Him. That is happening now. You can be a part of it or choose to worship someplace else. Please don't continue to slander the church - have the decency to move on. Brad is gone. A new Pastor and new leadership is being sought out. The staff presented the facts last night and it's time to move forward. God is fully capable of dealing with sin and we have His Word and Spirit to guide us.
ReplyDeletePathways you're so stupid. I can't believe you trust the very people who hired Brad?!?! What is wrong with you people?? You deserve what you get now. I am truly dismayed by your lack of integrity. It's very sad to see. Brad damaged you in more ways than one.
ReplyDelete((sigh)) Many of you are missing some major points here. The church bylaws were in place long before Brad came into the picture. The problems existed when Mike Randerson led the church. It was Mike who set it up the way that it is. Under Mike's leadership the board was put together and under Mikes leadership JJ was appointed as head of the board. Under Mike, Brad was hired. If you really want tings to change, if you really want the church to be healed, you have got to get to the root of all of the trouble.
ReplyDeleteFirst, we have to make sure that the Randersons are completely out of the picture. Second, the board needs to be removed and replaced. Don't forget, the board was in place when Mike was leading, when Brad was hired, and when all of this scandal was in progress. They also assumed their positions under the current bylaws. If the board was truly interested in following the Bible they would have either made changes or stepped down (which some have done).
Third, you need to stop believing JJ. JJ was on the board long before Brad was hired. JJ was instrumental in bringing Brad into Pathways. JJ is much more interested in keeping Pathways alive and protected then he is in following the Bible. If JJ truly wanted a Biblical based church, he would have made the bylaw changes he's now talking about many years ago - but he didn't.
JJ is also lying to you about 501c legalities. There are thousands of examples of churches following the Biblical example of church governance working seamlessly with 501c rules and regulations. Either JJ doesn't know how to make this happen at Pathways, or he doesn't care. While there are aspects of business in running a church, a church is NOT a business and should never be looked at as one. The differences between the church and a business are just as great as the differences between a submarine and an airplane. You can’t run a church like a business because you can’t manage sheep like you can a project. It just can’t be done. You cannot measure their effectiveness the same way. Some of the inefficiencies of the church are built into the very core of its purpose—to transform people. People are messy. And you can’t fire a sheep like you can an employee, not even the messiest of the lot. Churches and businesses have a great deal in common, but just like submarines and airplanes, their differences far outweigh their similarities.
What about JJ's excuse that he's been in his position for so long only because no one else wanted to step up?
Utter B.S.!!!
For those of you who have been at Pathways for a few years, have you ever heard that there was a need for new board members? A need for JJ's replacement?
Once again, if JJ really cared about God's church, he would have stepped down at the end of his term and let God fill the position. The Biblical model of church government doesn't even have head for the board of elders! The elders governed equally!!!
If you accept all of the mess that is Pathways, that's your choice. Just know that it's not run Biblically, nor does it teach sound Biblical doctrine.
If you want a church that is Biblically sound, there are many out there to choose from.
AGREE! AGREE! AGREE! Well said! The corruption runs deep. Pathways was built on sand from the start. No one should be surprised by what is happening. God will not honor such evil schemes. He sees through it, unlike many of us!
DeleteJust to add to your comments on how a church cannot be run like a business, because the sheep can't be fired... Interesting how when people in our church would come forward to confront Brad or ANYONE about their concerns, whether that be spending, adultery or embezzlement, Brad and JJ would automatically threaten those people verbally or via an attorney, as if they were trying to "fire" them. This type of behavior confirms that they were/are treating this church like a money-making business and are clearly not in it for winning souls for Jesus! JJ only wants to protect it enough to continue to make money. There has to be money in it for him (via a salary or perks) otherwise why is he so adamant about staying? This whole ordeal has to be life-altering for him... seems like he would take pleasure in walking away from the stress of it. Unless his ego is just that big to carry-out this power trip? It just doesn't add up. His whole claim of not having anyone to come forward to take the position is an absolute sham! He's spin-doctor just like Brad. You cannot trust a thing he says or offers. The staff is lead astray too, they are so deep in the thick of it they can't see anything clearly.
When JJ found out about Brad's affair(s) it was his responsibility to make Brad step down. Biblically speaking Brad, at that point, was NO LONGER qualified to be a pastor or any type of leader in a Christian church! God certainly isn't going to continue to bless a church with a false leader... it's biblical!!! Instead, JJ and Brad, Jana, Larry Liebe, Steve Tripp and ALL the other people that were notified of this moral failure chose to cover it up!?!?!?!?! PEOPLE WAKE UP!!!! Can't you see failure on every level here? Every single person in a position of leadership failed! Call it what you want; sin, human behavior, moral failure, a lack of integrity, poor judgement... whatever.... we ALL sin, yes I know this, but these are our leaders! They are to be held at a higher standard and are to keep each other accountable. NO ONE stepped up. NO ONE! And those who did were banished for disloyalty. How can you be loyal to these people? God will not be loyal to them either... and if you don't believe me, then just stick around and wait to see how much worse it can and will get.
Clearly we are all deeply, deeply hurt by all of these lies, lies, lies. It is really devastating to be lied to by your church council, leadership and pastors, and for some of us, close friends. It makes it hard to trust anyone, even each other. I just don't see how this can end well. It is going to take a lifetime of healing. The Lord has brought all of this to fruition for a reason!!! And the Pathways sheep are seriously considering keeping the same people in charge to make the same mistakes again. And really there is nothing the sheep can do but leave, because of the way the bi-laws are set up. The people mean nothing to Pathways... which makes me feel worthless and not a needed member of this country club... I do believe it is time to move on....
Bringing in a permament lead pastor is premature. What is needed at this time is an interim pastor (6 to 12 months) whose focus is solely on facilitating healing in individuals and the body, restoring trust in spiritual leadership, helping bring necessary changes to church structure, cultivating an atmosphere of transparency, and simply preaching the Word of God with no personal agenda. In fact, any discerning pastor would not consider coming until these critical areas are addressed and implemented. Ignoring or minimizing these issues will result in lingering questions and ongoing trust issues going forward.
ReplyDeleteYes, BUT.......will His Word and His Spirit actually be used by the leadership of the church? That is the million dollar question.
ReplyDeleteAre board members paid or get gifts?
ReplyDeleteNo, board members are not paid. It is unknown if they receive "gifts."
DeleteIt is apparent that the inner circle of people is not willing to look at facts. They so desperately want to keep the "group" together that they are blinded by the actions of Brad and the board. Pathways will continue to struggle so long as any of the current leadership is in place. Unfortunately it seems clear that I and many others will have to move on and find another place to worship. These events are sad but honestly the reaction by the leadership and the inner circle is even sadder.
ReplyDeleteJJ, there is no shame in your admitting that you were wrong. I and everyone else should forgive you however this does not mean that you are qualified to be in leadership. Step down and do what is right for the church and yourself.
I will not publish bad language. Speak like a Christian or don't speak at all. Christians are held to a higher standard than non-Christians in that area. If you want to comment here, then you will have to clean up your language.
ReplyDeleteThis whole page is non-Christ like.....I check back from time to time and am shocked that this garbage is still being written Daily. Its sickening. Can't you see the damage this page is doing? All the people who are leaving their churches because of this? Yes Brad will be held accountable and so will anyone else in leadership who has done wrong....but what you are doing with this page is wrong too....How can you expect to not be held accountable as well? And by being held accountable, I'm referring to by God.....He is the Judge and the Jury....And as damaging as Brad's actions were to the church as a whole...this too is JUST as damaging to the church as a whole. I beg you to pray and ask God if He is really pleased by what is going on here...I believe His heart is grieved over every aspect of this. What Brad has done yes....but by all of you as well....
DeleteMore good has come out of this blog than bad. More truth and hidden secrets have been exposed and that is something that is needed. We can't be following false teachers. You have to take the good with the bad.
DeleteAfter all this hurt and anger, I don't think I can tithe anymore to Any church...this is the second time I have been deceived by a pastor. The first time it took years to get over, but I did and started tithing again to Pathways. I think from now on, my tithe will go directly to the homeless shelter, animal shelters, and food pantry. The lack of accountability, the board and it's cover ups, just make me literally sick, and hurting. The money that we put in Pathways hands, didn't go where it clearly needs to be to help others who are hungry, homeless and in need, or for "real" mission work.
ReplyDeleteAgree. We have chosen to use our tithe to help causes that we know go directly to support those in need. That way "I" know its going where it should. Lots of need right here in our community. I'm done padding the pockets of fakes. We are told to be different than the world, why doesn't that apply to the leadership? Aren't they setting the example? JJ needs to go, especially after his admission, it shows how corrupt our leadership is. We need board members that will stand up for what's right, can we get that from people who have been doing it wrong, for too long? Only God knows that......
ReplyDeleteWhy would JJ Eaton remain in power when his existence is making people leave the church?
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, he covered up the Kelly Dudley affair. When the truth came out he spins it to make it look like it happened a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. Brad and Kelly were having an affair while Brad was the pastor of Pathways. Your Pathways tithe money was going to support her as a missionary and buying her gifts and trips.
Why does JJ remain in power? He now knows that Brad stole money and it is about to come out. He is staying to cover this up because it indites his leadership and character
Everything that is wrong with the church in America has reared its ugly head at pathways. I can't believe that the leadership and pastors can’t see this. How difficult is it to see that your policies, practices and decisions have pushed people away from God. Shame on the leaders who allowed this to take place, shame on the current leaders who want to move on as if nothing happened and shame on us (the people of the church) for not taking a stronger stand. My heart hurts at what the "church" has become. It is nothing more than a social club with lots of programs. We are no more affective than the local YMCA. Folks I am sorry to say this but our modern day church just does not work. We worship buildings and programs not to mention pastors and status. I don’t have a solution or answer to the problem other than walk away and take some time to reflect, meditate and pray. God please help us! May the scales fall off of our eyes.
ReplyDeleteI feel the same way. Need to take a break from modern day church. You are not alone.
DeleteI went to Brad for couseling for my marriage. Boy do I feel like a fool.
ReplyDeleteI will not trust this board again - if they all don't step down, I will not be going back to Pathway's.
And the main thing I am having a very difficult time wrapping my brain around is that so many people that I talk to are just saying forgive and forget. He is only human. Yes he is only human but being a pastor and given all of his responsiblities for couseling people on so many different situations, he should be held more accountable than the average person.
I went to the Post Crescent today. Time to get it all out in the open.
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU!!!
DeleteSaddens me that you feel you had to take this to the media. As of right now there is NO DEFINITIVE EVIDENCE that Brad did anything "illegal" while at Pathways. Immoral, unethical, unchristian, yes, but illegal, no. What you have done is bring what should be a private church matter to the public. I sincerely hope you aren't a fellow Pathways member that I know!
DeleteBull! If someone would have blown the whistle in Florida Brad never would have made it to Pathways and Kelly wouldn't be having sex every pastor she comes into contact with.
DeleteI am happy to hear someone went to the Post Crescent. Somebody needed to, and I am glad the above poster had the courage and strength to do so. Yes, forgive, and believe me I have!! But letting some corrupt pastors move from church to church and to continue to abuse power and hurt those that he serves in a profound way can NOT and should not continue.
ReplyDeleteI agree too! Something needs to be done. Investigative reporters have lots of resources. I hope they dig and dig and dig, and the WHOLE TRUTH finally comes out! This man needs to be stopped!! If we do nothing, we are no better than the Catholic church, that passes the problem from one parish to the next to hide the problem, instead of exposing it.
DeleteBottom Line:
ReplyDeleteJJ Eaton and Larry Liebe need to be held accountable and resign!
Kelly Dudley, her parents, and Jana's parents also need to be held accountable for their silence as the innocent people of Pathways were made fools of.
All of Larry Liebe's Presbyters, the board and staff of Pathways that remained silent and allowed and enabled Brad and JJ need to beg forgiveness for enabling.
Brad needs to go to jail for embezzlement and people like Kelly need to pay the churches back for misused funds.
******* Brad was stealing from Pathways! This will come out. Period.
To the above poster NO DEFINITIVE EVIDENCE...we will see, won't we?
ReplyDeleteAnd regardless of that, the media gives another set of eyes that are unbias, UNlike the Pathways board.
**to the moderator of the site, tried to reply to original post, but nothing happens when I hit reply, sorry.
Several reasons why I will not be back in church and any penny I give from this day forward will go directly to those in need and not the church:
ReplyDeleteBrad Liebe (He is a serial church pirate, offender, pervert, thief, and sociopath)
Kelly Dudley (She would make Jezebel blush - how many pastors does she have to sleep with before something is done about her)
Larry Liebe (evil man, religious politician, covers up his sons sin)
Assemblies of God (No heart, conviction, brains, or courage to do what is right)
Roland Dudley (I know he is in a hard place, but he is a missionary and should have done what was right with the information he had)
Paul Weis (same as Roland)
Presbyters, Staff of Pathways and First in Fort Meyers, and everyone else who had information that would have saved Pathways and chose to keep their mouths shut.
I am the one leaving the church, but if true justice were served, it would be all of you leaving.
I'm from Fort Myers, I know most of the above mentioned people, and I couldn't agree more! We have to leave the church in order to escape sinful ways and leadership. Isn't that just poignantly ironic? What an absolute joke the Liebe family is! Sickos.
Delete"Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act."
ReplyDeleteThis is a quote on Paul Weis facebook page. The guy that knew all the crap that Brad and Kelly were up to when Pathways people were in the dark. He is an assembly of God missionary and Kelly Dudley's dad.
I just scratch my head and wonder where these people come from. I am so done.
It appears no one has brought up Northpoint Church in Springfield, MO but YOU!!! Kelly Dudley and the Paul Weis family are who they are... Sleezy and a little bit corrupt... Oh yes and liers! I know these people AND I don't even go to Northpoint church! Nor am I the person that made that interesting observation about Paul Weis' quote! This ENTIRE scenario happens to affect hundreds of people from Fort Myers to Wisconsin to Missouri to Romania!!!! These unethical, egotistical, narcissistic families have shattered faith and trust in leadership across the globe!!! And I don't think it's going to go away until they genuinely own up to their venomous behavior, apologize to EVERYONE, seek mental health help and step out of the ministry FOREVER! That's ALL the Liebe's, ALL the Dudley's, ALL the Weis', ALL the Tripp's, ALL the Betzer's, ALL the Randerson's, ALL the Eaton's!!!
DeleteThe "spewing" is justified. If you didn't want bad things to be said about your friends and family then YOU should have stepped up to stop their sinful behavior along the line at some point in the last 5 years! It's supporters like yourself that have allowed this to happen in the first place!
There is nothing wrong with the above poster making an intriguing observation. I find it kind of alarming by how offended you are!?!
Lots of people are hurt and happen to find solace with each other on this blog, that IS part of healing and dealing with our own "hearts."
Well said. Methinks thou dost protest too much? It's an open forum blog. Deal.
DeleteIts the dealing with our own "hearts" that is the issue....some of this stuff has nothing to do with the church. The gossip and slander has been unendingly thrown into the middle of people trying to understand and figure out what is happening and going to happen.
DeleteSomeone even tried to pull in names of women in the church and connect them to Brad. It's just too much. And, I, for one, like most others, am tired of the unhealthy and unproductive nature of this blog. Open forum is one thing-but this is far from open. It is a bunch of anonymous people making and keeping a mess going. Thats what I was saying-if we're going to work on the church and what is going on here, let's do it. And, not get distracted with every little gossip bit that keeps being thrown in that has nothing to do with what we need or want to do.
And I am "dealing with the open forum" anonymous number 2, I just wish we could be productive. I've missed a lot that was posted, but probably will not be back with the way this thing has and is been going.
Very, very sad.
Its really sad, to read post after post, about the hurt, betrayal and the decision of so many to move away from the church. LEADERS OF PATHWAYS are you hearing any of this? Where is your accountability in this? You run around like this group of elite people in the church, most of you knowing what was happening and did NOTHING! You can't even see what's real anymore, that's sad.
ReplyDeleteNow things have come out and you talk about all these things that need change. NO ONE saw this before? Why did no one stand up to Brad? Wouldn't being fired for doing the RIGHT thing, be far better than keeping your job for the wrong reasons?
JJ Eaton, the man in charge, the man who admitted that Brad should have never been allowed to (come)and stay here and then stated that the Brad admitted to having an affair and you chose to hide that? How do you consider yourself worthy of your position? How do you expect people to ever trust you and your decisions again? How can you stand up in front of us and say you are great at organizing capital campaigns, but there's no talk about what is best for Pathways congregation.
ITS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY!IT'S NOT ABOUT A BIGGER BUILDING!ITS NOT ABOUT DOUBLING THE MEMBERSHIP! God will provide everything we need, but He will not bless an organization full of fakes and liars.
As far as getting on the board, I have been coming here 4 years and I have never once saw in a bulletin or anything posted that ever said, this position was coming available, is anyone interested??? Explain that. Maybe if things weren't so secretive, you would have people stepping up. If you don't let us know....how do we know? Funny how that way it becomes very easy for you to stay in the same position forever! And yes someone can step in and fill your shoes...none of you are that important!
There is only one course of action that must be taken by Pathways church members who do not trust their Church Board.
ReplyDeleteSTOP GIVING YOUR TITHES TO THIS CHURCH!
Ultimately the church (or corporation) will have to file for bankruptcy. Once the bankruptcy proceedings are complete the members can form a new church, elect a new Board, and write new bylaws with term limits for Board members. Once your new Church is organized you can then begin a search for a new Pastor. You will also probably be able to purchase the Church building back from the bank at a fraction of the current appraised value.
Good article and may be of some help to some of you. Might help explain why you feel the way you do.
ReplyDeletehttp://theschoolofchrist.org/blog/the-last-exodus.html
Seems like a lot of slander thrown around about Brandon. I don't know him but didn't he blow the whistle? Seems to me he was the only one who did anything. Why exactly are people hating on him?
ReplyDeleteWhy exactly should any Liebe be trusted? I hadn't heard that Brandon was the one that blew the whistle. If that is true, that is quite noble of him, but he is still a part of a horrible family full of liars. The Liebe name is mud and really none of them should continue in the ministry. Brandon is too much of a follower to stand up and make a good name for himself. He will be tainted the rest of his ministry career.
DeleteBrandon along with Dave and Chris Kliner all confronted Brad as they caught him in the hotel with another female. Brandon has drawn his line in the sand and it is not in support of Brad.
DeleteI stand corrected. Thank you for your insight.
DeleteSee what happens when the facts come out?! It puts an end to the assumptions and gossip.
DeleteNot a Brandon fan either, but do have to admit that Chris, Dave, and him all pushed to have Brad fired.
DeleteThe above is true but he was with two other witnesses. Also he is here in Appleton. He came here KNOWING about his brothers past, KNOWIING what he is and was like. Now it is necessary for his own skin for him to distance himself as much as he can from Brad and he is doing it well-Liebe style. Go Brandon!
DeleteI have been going to Pathway's for a few years. I have seen in past bulletins that they were searching for board members but never once mention anything about JJ Eaton stepping down. I also noticed that the tithing from last weekend was almost half of what it normally is.
ReplyDeleteThere's a simple solution for those of you who do not approve of what is being written by the various commenters in this forum. Quit reading it. If you disapprove, fine. This is not required reading. To use a too often quoted phrase, "it is what it is." If it's too gossipy for you or you think it's slanderous, just quit looking at it. But please note that when something is being reported THAT IS TRUE it is not slander; it's simply the truth. You should be glad that the truth has finally come out so that Pathways could rid themselves of this wolf. If it were up to the leaders of the church, Brad would still be there. You sure couldn't count on them to do the right thing. So.....this forum has served a good purpose. The wolf is gone. Now.......if only he can be kept out of the pastoring business for life..... Sometimes being anonymous is the only way that people feel safe. Several people were actually kicked out of Pathways by the leadership because they asked too many hard questions. They were bullied out. Chicago style! They were actually told the police would be called and they would be charged with trespassing if they ever came onto the grounds of the church again. Now, is that any way for a Christian church to treat people? Crazy! Hence, being anonymous is sometimes the only way to go. Deal with it or don't; as you like.
ReplyDeleteWell said.
DeleteBullied out? Chicago style? Could you please me a little more specific. I don't need names but maybe a good example or two would help everyone here understand.....
DeleteIf you go back and start reading from 2010 in the prior 4 parts to this blog, you will see attempts made by various people to make this information public and how Brad and board members handled the threats. It's ALL here... all you need is about 6 hours and a bottle of wine. It's better than TV!
DeleteThere is a line from "The Great Gatsby" that reminds me of Brad, Kelly, and the rest of their families:
ReplyDelete"They were careless people, Tom and Daisy - they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made ..."
Of course the story ends with Gatsby dead and Tom and Daisy going off to live their selfish lives, protected, and probably to do damage again.
Strange how these people are protected through religious politics and power. It makes one wonder if it will ever truly stop.
Love it!! How creative and observant of you to notice the similarity with Gatsby! Funny but also very true. I'm sort of doubting that it will every truly stop. I think he will go somewhere far away and start all over again. One time he went all the way to Copenhagen from Ft. Myers to get away and "start over." There are just too many enablers who will help him continue his "wicked ways."
ReplyDeleteUnless he's in jail!
DeleteThat would be the best solution of all! It's more than well deserved. We can only hope. Who's going to touch it though? The adultery thing is not illegal. The theft/embezzlement is but you saw what happened in Ft. Myers. Absolutely nothing!! Thanks to the Good ol' boy network and Pastor Betzer who protected him more than anyone else.
ReplyDeleteNever believe the new stuff being talked about. David Brickey the Youth Pastor is now making a play to be the next Senior Pastor and has been a major player in the last months and has spoke the most lately including the easter activities. Apparently there are is a TON of things in his closet and the whole staff know about it including the board. Lets see what happens when all this comes out!
ReplyDeleteWhat is the deal with Mike and Terri Randerson? Anyone talking about their contract?
ReplyDeleteLet me get this straight. Brad was having an affair with his sister-in-law over an extended period of time and was also have an affair with another woman who he was caught with while in Atlanta by his brother Brandon????? Does anyone know if Brad and Jana are still together? They have 3 kids!!! What a terrible position to be in if you are the Liebe kids.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I am reading that Larry and a host of others knew about these affairs some time ago and did nothing?
One more comment - I also read that Brad had a salary of 200K and Jana 80K. Is that true as well?
As someone from the outside looking in and a person who has no bone in this fight, I would say that corruption in our church leaders may be at an all-time high. I also read that Brad embezzled anywhere from 300K - 700K at his previous church in Florida.
Answer these questions for me:
1 How did Brad avoid jail time in Florida?
2 Why was he hired in Appleton?
3 Why are those who knew and did not say anything not being held accountable?
4 Did Brad embezzle from his church in Appleton and how do you know?
5 Was Brad only having an affair with two women or are there more?
BINGO!
Delete1. He blackmailed Dan Betzer, with skeletons that Brad knew about and his attorney's forced a gag order on the Fort Myers Church Council.
2. Connections from is father, Larry Liebe
3. Great question!
4. It seems that all the signs are there, but the board is protecting the books and won't show the audit publicly.
5. Come on... let's be real, once a cheater, always a cheater... I am sure there are more, but these are the two that he has been caught with.
What? Brickey! He is like 12. How can they possibly consider him for the postion of lead pastor? We should be looking for the next leader anyway. We have way too much that needs to be cleaned up before we entertain a pastoral search. Is it me or does this church simply want to fail? Ugh!!!!!!!
ReplyDelete1. Betzer was guilty too. Good lawyers. George wood.
ReplyDelete2. Larry Liebe help lie for him
3. They are connected politically
4. Yes he did. Ask your real accountants
5. There were more in Florida
Why did no one talk about Mike Randerson at the meeting? All this discussion on what people get paid and how much is spent on payroll. When is the truth of Mike Randerson and his finances going to be told? If you look at Mike Randersons Facebook he talks about agreeing with this boards decision with Brad and completely supporting what the board did. OF COURSE HE DOES! Mike is as big of a thief as Brad or anyone, and he STILL GETS PAID. Why doesnt Mike or the board comment on this at meetings about being transparent or on Facebook?
ReplyDeleteThe Randersons were discussed at the meeting.
DeleteOne of my questions that was sent in was are the Randersons still receiving pay from pathways...they answered that question with a yes. And how he was the great man that started the church and how they felt obligated to support him. I asked how much and they chose not to answer that question. I also asked if we were covering their health care and that was not addressed either.
DeletePathways is only going to let you know what they want you to know. Too many secrets....sad.
I was at the meeting and that is exactly what was said. Didn't answer anything. If the church and the Randersons intend to be honest Then why cant they answer those simple questions? I left the meeting convinced Mike and Terri Randerson are as big of liars as anyone there. And Mike and Terri are still getting paid. If they are supposedly such wonderful people why hide? If they warrant this payment, then say what it is! Why not say what they get paid, what the benefits are, and for how long? I am conviced that just talking about Brad Liebe at Pathways is a smoke screen for all the other things that are still going on. Brad is gone, what is the deal with all the cover up if everythign is clean now??
DeleteGo read Mike Randerson's facebook or twitter. You will see for yourself this guy is a thief. I bet you would never get him to tell you what he gets paid from Pathways and he has hardly been there in years. Now he has started another non profit with no facts or information given about this new "ploy" other then requests for money.
Delete$75,000 per year for the Randersons plus insurance. Ask anyone who would know. That's what it is.
DeleteBrad's sister in law was manipulated by him. She is brilliant and good. She is an eagle. There are not enough people like her on this earth. She just got lost.
ReplyDeleteLost under the sheets? Didn't she have a couple of affairs? Is the other one Brad's fault too? I'll tell you, Kelly is a nice person, but just a little too sleezy. Afterall, how do you sleep with your sister-in-laws husband? She was one of Jana's closest friends! Kelly Dudley is not a good person.
DeleteAre you serious?? What about North Point and Tommy Sparger? How many other times has she "spread her wings" and been good?
DeleteShe is a eagle you say? Are you her next victim? She is brilliant at making people believe she is something she is not.
Delete12? If you think Bickey is 12 you obviously don't go to Pahways.
ReplyDeleteWow. Guess people at Pathways don't have a sense of humor. Sarcasm doesn't translate well via blog I guess.
DeleteShe is good????? Oh my gosh, what planet did you come from? I've got news for you: Adultery and fornication are both immoral. Against God's wishes. Unfortunately, there are waaaaaaayyyyyy too many people like her on this earth. If she is "brilliant and good" then I hope I don't meet any more "brilliant and good" people ever.
ReplyDeleteIn case y'all don't go back and read updates on the past blog parts, this one is pretty good...
ReplyDeleteAnonymousJune 4, 2013 at 10:59 AM
Brad is not an AG credential holder. He is not subject to the Constitution and By-laws of the AG. The Wisc AG has no authority over him. Pathways is not an AG church. Leave the AG out of this.
AnonymousJune 4, 2013 at 3:05 PM
Leave the AG out of it??? YOU created this monster at North Central Bible College! Larry Liebe, who IS a AG CREDENTIALED holder, got Brad the job at Pathways knowing his embezzlement past AND helped to keep things quiet when the adultery charges quiet!!! ALSO, Roland Dudley and Paul Weis are AG CREDENTIALED PASTORS, AND they too kept things quiet. NONE of these AG CREDENTIALED leaders stepped up to put an end to Brad Liebe's vial reign as pastor of Pathways. In ADDITION, several other AG CREDENTIALED PASTORS and presbyters were notified of the Brad situation and NONE of them stepped up either!!! Not to mention that Steve Tripp is also an AG CREDENTIALED PASTOR and was on Pathways board and works at the WI AG District Office. OH YES... and let's not forget who Brad learned all of this from... none other than Dan Betzer, another AG CREDENTIALED PASTOR. Seems several of your AG credentialed pastors are corrupt, not just Brad! DOES THAT CONCERN YOU????? IDIOT!
North Central University and the AG are just a good ol boys club.
DeleteAgain, JJ Eaton remains in charge because he knows that Brad Liebe stole thousands and he wants to cover that up.
ReplyDeleteAfter news of his sister in law came out in the summer, Brad probably knew his time was short, and there is no telling how much money he racked up from then to now.
I went to high school with Brad and just can't believe what I'm reading. Who would have ever thought he would turn out to be such an awful man.
ReplyDeleteWhy are there no answers on the Randersons? Why will no one speak the truth about them are their salary? Is it because his sister still sits on the board? Why will no one acknowledge this?
ReplyDeleteThe way things are going at Pathways with attendance down and giving down (I know, shocker right?!), eventually Randerson's are going to feel it too(as in their wallet/loss of health benefits). I know a lot of people in the valley without jobs and really struggling, yet Pathways was paying Randerson's a salary and medical benefits? The 'real' Mike and Terry Randerson showed who they are- not only did Pathways give them a salary and pay their medical insurance, but MIKE AND TERRY ACTUALLY TOOK THE MONEY AND BENEFITS!!!
DeleteThe more I think about it, the madder I become. Who gets paid for doing nothing? Literally?
Yet tonight there are people worried about making their house payments, paying their bills and putting food on the table. Yet people like Mike and the Liebe's all have nice homes and cars.
You may think your tithes and giving are going to something good..... Guess again.
It has been said here before, but if you insist on going to Pathways, then DON'T TITHE/GIVE until the board is out and the pastors are out.
Have you confronted Dave Brickey about this? Sounds like people have and he wont comment, or gives uneasy answers. Staff has stated it is true. And this is the person preaching all the time and he is telling people he wants to be the next Pastor.
ReplyDeleteThe most appalling thing I am reading here right now is that Dave Brickey is allowed to preach right now. That Mike Randerson is still on payroll and the board will not simply give answers to this. Why so evasive on such simple issues? Why keep lying and hiding the truth? This incident proves that lying and covering up doesnt work and the truth will come out. Mike Randerson and Dave Brickey come clean.
ReplyDeleteHer affair with Tommy Sparger was not a one time event, it was on-going for some time. People at North Point were also informed, but did not act on it right away either. Kelly needs to be removed from ministry as well as the Liebe's.
ReplyDeleteMy brother in law attended this church in Springfield, MO and was told the affair was going on for over a year. At least Tommy did the right thing eventually, and ended it and confessed to the board, and was terminated.
What is wrong with all these pastors? This is making me sick. Brickey is married with 4 kids and a youth pastor? And he's still there? WHY???! And why would you continue to attend this completely messed up church? I'm speechless and appalled that Pathways board and leadership supports all of this corruption. I don't understand.
ReplyDeleteEnough. Five pages of comments is more than plenty. Everyone has had time to vent. etc. If anyone wants to continue on with this, start a new blog on a new page yourself. I will allow you to post a link to it here directing people to the new location. Simply post that link in a comment and I will post that one last comment.
ReplyDeleteWisdom seeker. Did they get to you?? How much to end the blog?
ReplyDeletewisdomseekerprov4.
ReplyDeletePlease be patient with my repeated requests to post the link to my new blog. I just figured out how to create the blog and create a proper link. Thank you for creating this initial blog. Please post my comments below the line on your blog. I promise this is my final post! Thank you!
____________________________________________________
I've created the following blog "Pathways - The Continuing Saga" for those of you who want to continue following the recent events at Pathways Church in Appleton, Wisconsin.
Please follow this link: http://pathways-saga.blogspot.com/2013/06/pathways-continuing-saga.html
Nope, no one got to me. Just got tired of all the time it took to review and post all these pages and pages of comments. My original goal was simply to inform the people at Pathways of Brad's evil past at First Assembly. That has been accomplished. Now someone else has volunteered to continue the saga on a different blog. See above comment for the link.
ReplyDeleteGo to this link below:
ReplyDeletehttp://pathways-saga.blogspot.com/2013/06/pathways-continuing-saga.html
FYI: Buyer beware!!!!
ReplyDeleteIt looks like he started this company on 8/28/13.
KK&B Financial Services for Seniors.
PRESIDENT, VICE PRESIDENT
Liebe Brad
8695 College Parkway, Ste 2019
Fort Myers, FL 33919
SECRETARY, TREASURER
Liebe Brad
8695 College Parkway, Ste 2019
Fort Myers, FL 33919
All I can say is Oh Boy.
Email or call the Florida Insurance Commissioners office and file an official complaint. Brad must not be allowed to handle retirement money of seniors. Do not bury your head in the sand as First Assembly did.
DeleteJoie Pirkey, who prophesied about the reasons for the eventual split of Christ the Rock, also has been getting a Word from the Lord about what is going on at Pathways now. Please take heed of this warning:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.shoutsofjoyministries.com/pathwayschurch-appleton/
Looks like the PR Department at pathways took over the new blog. They are killig any comments that expose the truth. I find this to be offensive, it's sensorship. I suppose we can add that to the list of non disclosures and spin.
ReplyDeleteI would like to propose to WisdomKeeper that this blog be reopened for the fact that Brad Liebe is back in Fort Myers trying to take advantage of senior citizens with his new "career." He is a proven criminal when money is involved and the public needs to be made aware of his deplorable actions.
ReplyDeleteI would also like to plead with the board members of Fort Myers First Assembly of God to please turn Brad Liebe over to the authorities before it is too late.
I understand that in the beginning there was reason to protect the Liebe family. Incarcerating Brad would harm his family more than anything. Of course no one wants to see his innocent children embarrassed and scarred for life. However, Brad Liebe has left his wife and children to pursue a new life back in Fort Myers with his long-time lover, adulterous Lisa Zahorian, and a new career in "Financial Services for Seniors," with his business KK&B Financial Services for Seniors. Since is appears that Brad has chosen to leave his family in the aftermath of his destruction and has set out to "be happy," (After all, doesn't he deserve to be happy too?) I don't see any point in continuing this charade of lies and secrets to protect anyone. Brad has done enough damage to people around the globe to be held accountable once and for all. Don't you think? Stop him in the financial management industry before he hurts more unsuspecting victims. You know how grandmas and grandpas eat him up! He's cunning, charming and manipulative!
FAOG I know you have, in essence, been blackmailed by Brad. He supposedly has damaging information on Pastor Betzer that could tarnish his legacy, but in all honesty who is ever going to believe Brad Liebe??? He is a proven lier, cheater and thief! He cannot be trusted. He cannot be taken for his word! In addition to that, it is rumored that the board has worked out a deal with Brad in the payback plan for the $500,000+ he stole from the church. He has been given some (MORE) grace. He doesn't have to pay the church right now since he has no income. WHAT??? WHY??? Why is he allowed more favors? He has done nothing but take advantage of FAOG! Who is making these ridiculous decisions? You let him go once and he took advantage of hundreds of innocent victims in Appleton, Wisconsin and has nearly destroyed the faith of another church. Now you are giving him another chance to make a better life for himself with one of the women he's been having an affair with? WHY???
Let's please put Brad to rest once and for all. Please turn him in. By doing so he will not be able to work in the financial industry. You have the power to stop this. He's not going to go away... haven't you figured that out yet?
Brad Liebe is a joke. He's a bad man, a bad father, and a non-existent husband. Brad Liebe is nothing more than an excellent lover, a fantastic lier, a first-class thief and one of the best manipulators that has ever walked the streets free.
It is time to end this. In pursuit of having the truth known and ending the follies of a despicable human being, I beg the administrator of this blog and the staff of FAOG to step up and make the truth known once and for all.
Thank you.
Call today regarding Brad Liebe. Do not allow him to hold a Florida License which he can use to swindle money from seniors. I called and you should too.
ReplyDeleteFlorida Office of Insurance Regulation
200 East Gaines Street
Tallahassee, Florida 32399-0305
850-413-3140
Consumer Services (Questions/Complaints)
877-693-5236 (In Florida)
he's back in wisconsin
ReplyDeleteHas anyone been approached by Brad to do business? Please get the word out in Fort Myers that he should not be trusted. I saw him in Naples recently - still living the "good life." Wonder how his family is back in Wisconsin?
ReplyDeleteWe must file complaints with both Wisconsin and Florida regarding Brad Liebe working with Seniors and there retirement. Are we really OK with just passing him off to cheat, steal and lie to another group. It wasn't enough that he has been quested about stealing as a youth pastor and missionary, found guilty of stealing as a staff pastor and had multiple affairs. Now we are just going to pretend that he won't do it again. Brad is a habitual liar and thief. Brad must never, never be able to handle finances other than his own. Call the Wisconsin Insurance Commission and the Florida Insurance Commission. I did!!! Take 15 minutes out of your day and do the right thing for all those people who will be taken to the cleaners in the future.
ReplyDeleteSincerely,
Bob Karpinsky
Are flipping kidding me? Check out his press release:
ReplyDeleteKK&B is a financial services provider specifically designed to assist senior citizens in reaching their retirement financial goals.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
kk and b pic logo brad liebe
PRLog (Press Release) - Oct. 21, 2013 - FORT MYERS, Fla. -- Now Open in Fort Myers Florida is KK&B Financial Services for Seniors. The retirement years are critical in regards to concerns over Social Security income, medicare, medicaid, health care, and overall financial position.
President Brad Liebe has nearly 20 years experience in the financial field assisting people in gaining financial freedom. Our proven track record of success gives you peace of mind as you make decisions that will have such a tremendous positive impact on your future. "Success for you is success for us!" Brad Liebe
More than once a month we host a FREE dinner seminar in the greater Fort Myers / Cape Coral area. You do not need to receive an invitation in the mail to be able to attend. Check back often for the latest seminar schedule and feel free to send us an email with your reservations! Our seminars are very informative with issues that are important to our clients.
KK&B Financial Services For Seniors takes a unique approach to helping you accomplish your financial goals. We are an independent financial provider that offers you the best products and services for YOUR needs. Let us assist you in ensuring that your financial position is putting you right where you want to be as you enjoy your retirement - you earned it!
Located in the Atrium Plaza on College Parkway in Fort Myers
THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE! "President Brad Liebe has nearly 20 years experience in the financial field assisting people in gaining financial freedom. Our proven track record of success gives you peace of mind as you make decisions that will have such a tremendous positive impact on your future." Brad Liebe is a fraud and a thief! More like 20 years experience in stealing!!
Someone please stop him!!!
Everyone must contact the Florida Insurance Commissioner and file a complaint. I am a 25 year financial services representative and he can't be allowed to tarnish the industry, as he swindles good people out of their life savings. PLEASE CONTACT THE COMMISSIONERS OFFICE IN FLORIDA.
ReplyDeleteBrad has manipulated his way into Peoples Church in Fresno California. They must hear the truth before he damages them as well. Anyone know how to make this happen.
ReplyDeleteYes, I heard he is a consultant. The people are starting to hear about his past and have called some people form Pathways about his past. Apparently they are being very quiet about what he did. How can they let this happen again? I too would like to know how to contact someone at the church. I can tell them what I saw. A thief, a liar and an adulterer---sick!
ReplyDeleteBrad Liebe is now the COO of Peoples Church in California, an AOG mega church with a senior pastor from Milwaukee.
ReplyDeleteThe regular MEMBERS of this current church need to know about his background both at First Assembly and at Pathways. It's a real travesty that someone like him has been enabled to just continue on fleecing the flock. The Bible says a pastor can only be a man of good repute. His repute/reputation stinks.
ReplyDeleteHas anything come of informing members of this People's Church in CA? Just googled him this morning and see he's been there since at least 2013. How can you overlook any of that??
ReplyDelete