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Tuesday, October 5, 2010

Spiritual Wisdom is Good

Spiritual wisdom is a great thing to go after.  Seek it with all of your heart.  Not to prove how smart you are but to prove how smart God is!  It's not about me; it's all about God.  The Hebrew Old Testament was divided into three categories:  The Law, the Prophets and the Writings such as Job, Psalms, Proverbs and Ecclesiastes.  Ancient Israel had three categories of ministers:  Priests, Prophets and Sages (wise men).  These wise men were supernaturally gifted with godly wisdom and counsel concerning all manner of life issues.  There is so much to be learned from these very wise sages.  Solomon is noted to be the wisest man in all history.  Much of the book of Proverbs in the Bible today was written by Solomon.  As mentioned in IKings4:32, Solomon wrote 3,000 proverbs and 1,005 songs during his lifetime.  The purpose of the Proverbs is to provide wisdom and understanding concerning wise behavior, righteousness, justice and equity (Pr. 1:2-7).  The book is basically a handbook if-you-will on right living.  Right living is based on a healthy fear (reverence) of the Lord. 

Today, let's take a look at Proverbs 2 (NIV).  I honestly believe that the King James Version of the Bible is the most accurate word-for-word translation from the original Greek and Hebrew languages available.  However, I tend to use NIV due to it's easy-to-understand language for today's readers.  The highlights are mine in the following:

PROVERBS 2 

"My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you, (2) turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding, (3) and if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding, (4) and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, (5) then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.  (6) For the Lord gives wisdom, and from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.  (7) He holds victory in store for the upright, he is a shield to those whose walk is blameless, (8) for he guards the course of the just and protects the way of his faithful ones.  (9) Then you will understand what is right and just and fair--every good path.  (10) For wisdom will enter your heart, and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul.  (11) Discretion will protect you and understanding will guard you.  (12) Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men, from men whose words are perverse and (13) who leave the straight paths to walk in dark ways, (14) who delight in doing wrong and rejoice in the perverseness of evil, (15) whose paths are crooked and who are devious in their ways.  (16) It will save you also from the adulteress, from the wayward wife with her seductive words, (17) who has left the partner of her youth and ignored the covenant she made before God.  (18) For her house leads down to death and her paths to the spirits of the dead.  (19) None who go to her return or attain the paths of life.  (20) Thus you will walk in the ways of good men and keep to the paths of the righteous.  (21) For the upright will live in the land and the blameless will remain in it; (22) but the wicked will be cut off from the land, and the unfaithful will be torn from it."

Please note that little, tiny word "IF."  It's small but it's mighty.  I get so sick and tired of listening to the TV preachers (and others) who talk about all of God's promises but they fail to mention the conditions attached to those promises.  Quote the whole scripture, not just half of it please.  There are a lot of "ifs," "buts," and "thens" that need to be applied to the meaning of the verses.  All of God's promises are conditional.  Bet you don't hear too many people tell you that, do you?

We can see here in verse 1 that we need (#1) to accept God's words and then we need (#2) to store up His commands within our hearts and minds.  We need (#3) to call out for insight through prayer and cry aloud for understanding.  He won't just automatically give it to us.  We need to ask for it.  We have to really search for it as if we were looking for a buried treasure.  IF we do those things, then God tells us that we will understand the fear of the Lord and we will find the knowledge of God.  "For the Lord gives wisdom, and from his mouth come knowledge and understanding."   Now this isn't just any old wisdom.  This is God's own wisdom, knowledge and understanding.  Imagine that!  God's wisdom is available to us.  That's almost incomprehensible really but it's true nonetheless. 

The rest of Proverbs 2 tells us all the many benefits of having Godly wisdom, knowledge and understanding.  He gives the upright victory, he's a shield to those whose walk is blameless, he guards the course of the just and he protects the way of his faithful ones.  Notice there are some things we need to do here.  There is action on our part involved.  We need to be upright, our walk needs to be blameless, we must be just, and we must be faithful.  It's not a free ride!  It requires some heavy duty work.  Sounds impossible, doesn't it?  It's not.  Faith comes first and that faith will lead us to a sincere love of God.  That love in turn will lead us to a strong desire to do what God wants us to do: to pray, to study His Word, to learn His Word, to talk to Him, to be in relationship with Him.  Pretty soon, out of love for Him, we will find ourselves living a godly life full of faith, right living, blamelessness, justness, uprightness, etc.  We will learn to love the same things that God loves and we will want to DO them too!  He tells us that wisdom will enter our hearts then and knowledge will be pleasant to our souls.  It will save us from wickedness.  It will keep us on the straight path and it will lead to eternal life (versus eternal death) in the end.  The wicked will be cut off but the blameless will remain in God's hands for all eternity.  

Proverbs 2 isn't about wisdom and knowledge for the sake of knowledge alone.  No, it's about Godly wisdom and Godly knowledge.  By putting God's Word into our hearts and minds we will learn to live righteously and wisely in our relationship with God.   We can then become victorious over sin with God's commands and His words in our hearts.  It's not a free ride folks.  We have to DO some things.  We have to earnestly pray and seek and ask for God's wisdom.  We have to study, not so much to become a Bible scholar, but to understand God's character and His ways.  Through prayer, the Holy Spirit will help us have revelations about God's Word and what it means and it will transform us from the inside out.  It's only when God's Word actually enters our hearts that it will produce life and power within us.  Following God's commands will become a pleasure to us, not a chore.  We do it out of love for Him.  We will learn how to discern good from evil; truth from a lie.  God will protect us in so many ways and will make us be able to live a victorious life.  Not everything is easy.  We have to work at this thing called our Christian walk.  But it will come with prayer and study and God's gift of Godly wisdom and knowledge. 

So pick up that sword (Word/Bible) and read it, study it, pray over it.  Guard your hearts and minds.  Put on that full armor of God.  Ask God to reveal things to you as you read and study His Word.  He will.  Strive to live a life that is pleasing to God.  The benefits of living for God are worth it all! 

209 comments:

  1. Wisdomseekerprov4,

    I'm a member of pathways church in Appleton Wisconsin. You posted on another Blog about the senior pastor there, and had some pretty startling info. I for one do not want to continue to give my money to the church if he indeed embezzled all of that money from First Assembly Of God in Ft. Myers, Florida.

    There is alot I enjoy about the church, but is what you said accurate? Why haven't I been able to find anything else on it anywhere online? How can something that big go unpublicized these past few years???

    Signed,
    Feeling Lost

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  2. To my knowledge, there was never anything publicly posted such as a news article, etc. because this was kept very hush-hush within the church family. It was NOT turned over to the authorities at any time. Instead, it was handled internally within the Assemblies of God headquarters and their lawyers in Springfield, MO. The Sr. Pastor at First Assembly in Ft. Myers did tell the congregation about it. However, as it turned out they were not totally transparent about the figures involved. The congregation was led to believe it was about $200-$300K involved(which is bad enough)when, in fact, the external auditors came up with the figure of more like $700K before the investigation ended. The Council (Board) members and everyone else at the church who was involved in the investigation were forced to sign a gag order in the end so they are not allowed to discuss it any further. However, as you can imagine, in a church of that size (or any size for that matter), information does leak out anyway. You just cannot hush up 50 or more people. What I have told you is totally true and accurate but I don't realy know of anything published publicly that will back this up. I do know that the staff at Pathways was recently notified about this by someone else and so now they know about it too but I'm sure they are very busy doing "damage control" to hush it up even further. In the end, the truth always comes out and as the Bible says, "be sure your sins will find you out." The sad part is that the innocent church members have been left totally in the dark about who their pastor really is. There has never been any sign of sincere repentence on Mr. Liebe's part. He ducked his head and read an apology letter of sorts to the congregation (at all 3 services) before he left the church in Ft. Myers but only because he was forced to do so. He never looked up at the congregation even one time. He left in total shame. But, in the end, he comes out smelling like a rose I guess because he is now the Sr. Pastor (not the Assoc. Pastor) of his very own church and he is living in his home state again near his family and friends and I'm willing to bet he's making a very substantial salary plus benefits. It reminds me of that television show called "I Almost Got Away With It." Almost but not quite becaue God is fully aware and judgment day is coming.

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  3. Thanks for the info, and I agree with you. I figured someone had found out about it up here because he has started referencing his "bad decisions in Ft. Meyers Florida" recently. It was making me curious enough to seek out the answers myself, so I really appreciate you helping me to find them.

    All we want is to find like-minded, good valued Christians to befriend, and I feel like we have found that here, such a shame that the leader is what he is.......untrustworthy.

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  4. You're right! His dad being the State Director of AOG in Wisconsin makes all the difference in the world. Before you know it, he will (if he hasn't already) regain all of his credentials/license with AOG. Just shows you how corrupt and dysfunctional the entire system is.

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  5. I am so glad to no longer be a card carrying member of AOG. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. He is my only Leader & CEO Hmmm, I wonder what B. Liebe spoke about at the Wisconsin District Counsel? How to fleece the flock by using guilt and manipulation of tears?? Yep..saw that too many times at FAOG Ft. Myers FL. Ill never forget when he wanted to spend $100,000 to rent out a convention center and hold a big birthday party for Dan Betzer. We should have run out the door after learning that. He was talked down to only spending $30,000 of the flocks money to butter up old Dan Im disgusted all over again. Help me Lord!!!

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  6. May I include that some of the "gifts" purchased by God's money through his precious flock were a set of expensive new golf clubs, a hairless cat....that's right...a hairless cat and other goodies. Airline tickets were purchased to fly his family in as well. Now the vertigo is setting in. Help me Lord!! BRad Liebe is a BIG BIG BIG spender

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  7. Since being directed to this posting by a former member of Pathways Church, I'm utterly in despair. My family has attended regularly for 2 years now, being committed servants in ministry there all this time.
    We left another area church because the pastor sought to build his "legacy" to the tune of $3.2 million - $2 million over the dedicated budget set by the congregation, and it set families against each other: the so called "true" visionaries, trusting God for the BIG answer to prayer vs. the "ye of little faith" like us, who knew it was outrageous indebtedness.
    Following that heartbreak, we attended a mini-church, if you will, without the crazy overhead of debt, content to rent their space and use much of the offering to support in-country missionaries in critical areas around the world. Our first red flag was the absence of a yearly business/congregational meeting; the pastor's WIFE was the treasurer and tax preparer. We were told that financial accountability was between them and God - not between them and (us) the church! The other tragic issue was that no matter how skillfully and powerfully - and I mean truly gifted - the pastor was in preparing and preaching sermons, the man had no Love for God's people. He even said as much several times, having no patience and nearly no social skills, in dealing with the flock. He could talk a blue streak about politics, but had no heart for ministering to people. We began to see the overbearing, over-controlling behavior become more severe in our 2 years there, as long-term attenders began leaving in an ongoing exodus. We dealt directly with him to no avail: another pastor on a power trip.
    We accepted the invitation to visit Pathways shortly after that. Now we're in that hellish, stomach churning position AGAIN!
    Our first red flag at PC was the weekend Brad brought in a slick "prosperity pusher", hawking his wares shamelessly in our temple, to an unsuspecting, captive audience. We objected strongly and directly to Brad, wondering just what kind of church we'd stepped ankle-deep into this time?
    Now the revelation/accusation detailed here regarding embezzlement, betrayal and unrepentant arrogance by our church's pastor, leave us both provoked and repulsed; even a little ashamed.
    I believe we're in a fighting mood this time.
    But first ~ our prayer is for God to whip back the curtain on this wizardry of deceitful actions AND every munchkin involved in perpetrating it. Then we pray that a humble and chastened congregation will beg Almighty God to send an upright servant of Christ! For Heaven help us if we now longer draw on the power of God to discern the wolves from the sheep among us.
    We are in the days when great heresies and blatant apostasies are declared with the fearlessness of an enemy on his own turf with absolutely NOTHING TO LOSE. The Western Church grooms and promotes their pastors as the Rock Stars of modern evangelicalism, loath to scrutinize if there's any "there" there. Like adolescents that swear they love the music and don't care about the words.
    We ought to wipe the smugly superior looks off our faces when contrasting our religious institutions to that of another centralized, wealth-drenched Behemoth that has lost touch with the commonness of humanity in need. We can erect vulgar structures to our own vanity with the best of them, becoming bound like slaves to
    the upkeep, overhead, salaries, benefits, ad infinitum. And now to our shame, like the Behemoth, we're just as skilled at moving our disgraced clergy around to other unsuspecting churches.
    We say our hearts belong to Jesus; but we're un-equally yoked to worldly, outward trappings to shameful indebtedness.
    Lord God, give us your wisdom, send us your power ~ Oh, how we need You!

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  8. Hello Despairing,

    My, my, my! Your story sounds exactly like our story! Unreal. I would highly, highly, highly recommend you read Frank Viola & George Barna's book called "Pagan Christianity?" Also, read Charles E. Newbold, Jr.'s book "Harlot Church Sytem." You can read the latter one online at his website if you want or he will send you a hard copy of the book FREE. Pagan Christianity? is a real eye opener and will explain why we in the church "system" are going through all of this. It's cheaper at Amazon.com. It's the entire system that is corrupt. Frank Viola has written a lot about house churches as an alternative to the institutional church. Very interesting. I would also recommend you read almost anything by Art Katz. Very deep.

    We are now simply attending a small fellowship of like-minded believers on Sunday morning in our homes and also on Wednesday nights. So far, so good. We all know each other. We've all come out of the same background. Most of us attended and eventually left First Assembly in Ft. Myers where the Brad Liebe incident hapened. Then we went on with a young pastor who was starting his own church which turned out to be a disaster (read above). All of us are really turned off by the entire "system" now. Not God. We love God; we love the Word and studying it. It's just the entire system that stinks.

    You know, I really do believe that we are in the end times. I believe that God is calling out his true remnant (the "real" Church; the Ekklesia). Come out of her my people.

    Do some reading and some research on alternative types of fellowship gatherings such as house churches, etc. Of course, they are not perfect either and can become equally messed up depending upon who is leading and who is involved. We don't have an official leader per se. We don't want one. We just get together and study God's Word book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse. We are determined to receive the FULL counsel of God; NOT just hand-selecting a few carefully chosen scriptures from here, there, and yon to use in "prooftexting." Just like the way the prosperity preachers always take out of context certain scriptures to supposedly "prove" to you that God wants to make us all millionnaires and that all Christians are supposed to be totally healthy all the time or else they just don't have enough faith.

    I also recommend you check out www.safeguardyoursoul.com and read some of the many articles on that web site. You can read his book too called "Deceivers and False Prophets Among Us" by Todd Thomasella. That is his web site. He is a very WORD oriented teacher/writer. He backs up every single thing he says with scripture.

    May God help us all in our journey! Best wishes to you. Keep me posted on what happens as time goes on. It's not an easy road to be on and there's a lot of hurt and pain involved. Leaving a church (any church) is very difficult. It doesn't go over well at all and the people who remain there usually will cut you off and turn their backs on you. Sometimes they will even say you are in sin for leaving. Most of them will no longer be your friends. So the rejection is not fun and the loneliness is unpleasant to say the least. But we have to remember that Jesus is our Best Friend and He will not cut us off. Hang in there. It gets better after you finally make the decision to leave and move on. It's not better immediately but in time it will be. Oh, did I say run, run as fast as you can? You don't need to stay in a church with a wolf in sheep's clothing as your pastor. What he has done before, he will probably do again. I'm just saying......use Godly Wisdom and discernment.

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  9. I hope what I have just read isnt true. Ive been struggling with my relationship with Jesus for many years and to hear about Brad in this manner isnt helping. I personally do not want to believe it is true. I have been attending Pathways for 11+ years now. While it has gone through changes, not all I agree with, I stay because all I care about is hearing God's message. Part of me hopes the prior posts are from people who are vindictive, angry, and lost. Not saying they are but I dont know what else to think.
    Brad has never released any details as to what happened in Florida, just that him and his family had to leave suddenly. I try to believe that God will put the leaders in our lives that we need. Is that person Brad? I dont know. This post has left me with more questions than answers and I thought I had a shit load of questions before reading this.

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  10. Unfortunately, what you have read here is totally accurate and truthful and factual. But, please, please, please do not let this interfere with your relationship with the Lord. Put Jesus first; not man. Men (and women) can and do fail and let us down. God/Jesus will never let you down. That does NOT mean that your life will be picture perfect but it does mean that He will always be there with you to get you through whatever comes your way. It is so easy for us, as Christians, to put way too much faith in our pastors; when we should be putting it in Jesus. A pastor is just a man (or woman in some cases). They are human and fallible. In many ways, we people in the congregation set them up for failure by putting them up on pedestals. When people are continuously praising you and telling you how wonderful you are, it is easy for pride to enter in. Pretty soon you believe it and pride sets in big-time. As the Bible says, "Pride comes before the fall." Pride is the surest way to come tumbling down. After all, that's what got Satan expelled from heaven. He thought he was as good as, or better than, God Himself. Concentrate on getting closer to the Lord. Study his Word more; pray more and don't forget to LISTEN for Him to speak to you. He will you know. Just pull closer and closer to Jesus and He will open up your eyes and tell you what you are supposed to do.

    I would also advise you to study the book of Acts and see how the original first century Christians "did" church. They went from house to house worshipping God and "breaking bread" together and fellowshipping. What we have been taught to do in the traditional churches for all these years is NOTHING at all like what the early Christians did. No resemblance at all.

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  11. I noticed in another blog that you were told that the church in Ft. Meyers DID let the leadership of Pathways know about the allegations against Brad and why he was dismissed BEFORE they hired him. Do you believe this to be true based on the source that told you? I am sickened at the thought that of all the pastors in this country that would want a job at Pathways the leadership would feel that a disgraced and fired pastor would be the best choice. He's even hired his own brother now!! A second brother is supported financially by the church as a missionary. He has made sure his brother-in-law's ministry received financial support through special offerings. In addition, large financial support has been provided to a ministry in Milwaukee that his father is the chairperson for. The nepotism is flat out shocking!!

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  12. Before Brad became pastor, Pathways was founded and run by Mike Randerson. Mike too ran the church in an autocratic polity surrounding himself with family and friends and calling it the "board of directors". After Mike purchased the current PW building, the whole thing almost collapsed.

    The congregation was told that mikes health was failing and the he could no longer run the church.

    That's when Brad was "sprung" upon the church.

    No one, save the president of the board and a few others, knew of Brads history. They were told that he was originally from WI, still had family there, and wanted to move back home.

    The reasons why he would leave a prosperous church were never revealed even though many questions were asked.

    Since the church government of PW resembled more of a dictatorship rather than any biblical model, nobody was able to question what was happening.

    Brad still governs PW in this manner. So, who has the power or authority to question it?

    The board members are either former members under Mike Randerson, Brads family or his close, hand picked, supporters.

    The majority of people attending PW are good Christ following people. The things they do and the work they perform are based in God's word.

    PW has a format of service that people love to be a part of. The reality of my previous statement comes from the amazingly talented artists crafting each and every service.

    Not because Brad is a great pastor.

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  13. Dear Sept. 12th Anonymous,

    I do not personally know for a fact when or what or to whom anything was told. I just recently was told that Pastor Betzer from First Assembly of God in Ft. Myers DID call someone (I don't know who) at Pathways either before Brad was hired or shortly after he was hired. That's about all I know about it.

    It sounds like "Bill" from the Sept. 15th comment knows much more about it. What he says sounds logical to me but I don't know anything for sure.

    What is going on at Pathways sounds pretty similar to what is going on all over the world in the "institutional curches." I would strongly suggest every Christian who cares about what is going on in Christendom to read Frank Viola and George Barna's book Pagan Christianity? (That question mark is a part of the title.) It is a real eye opener. As in all churches, I am sure there are many, many true, solid, Bible believing Christians at Pathways who are absolutely dedicated to serving the Lord. That's also why I believe that it is only right and fair that they know the full truth about their pastor's background. Then.....it is up to them to decide what they choose to do about it. Continue to stay there and just keep quiet about it? Leave the church? Try to fight the uphill battle within the church to expose the truth to all or whatever else they choose to do. There is no one right answer for everyone. As you know, it is very difficult to fight against the "powers that be" and have any success at it. You will be branded a troublemaker, judgemental, unforgiving, being "in sin," etc. Some of us go forward anyway based on principles and some do not. I wish you all well. In the end, God is the final judge and you can be sure that, as the Bible says, "your sins will surely find you out" (my paraphrase version of that scripture). Nepotism within the church is a real problem. What Bill has said is not at all surprising to me about that at Pathways. I personally would NOT be tithing there but would ask the Holy Spirit where He would like me to give. There are so many truly worthwhile and reputable ministries who actually do handle their money properly. Check out www.ministrywatch.com. You can research various ministries and find out how they are rated to help you make your decisions. By the way, you might find it interesting to do your own study from the New Testament on tithing. It's only mentioned four times in the NT and always in reference to the OT law (which, by the way, we have been released from since Jesus came). The Pagan Christianity book I mentioned above has a very fascinating chapter on the subject. But.....I digress....this is not the place to get into doctrinal stuff. God bless you all! Keep seeking and He will give you the answers you need.

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  14. Bill,
    I sounds like you have been around Pathways for a long time. I agree wholeheartedly that the people of Pathways should not be disparaged for a decision made without their knowledge.

    I would also like to address the "anonymous" post that "hopes" that others responding to this blog are just "vindictive, angry, and lost". I have to say that for a Christian, that is a very unkind thing to hope for. Not "wanting to BELIEVE it is true" has nothing to do with the actual truth of the matter. For someone to state that all they care about is hearing the Word of God and make such statements as these just doesn't make any sense to me. The bible has much to say about financial stewardship, greed, Godly leadership, and the qualifications for those in an overseeing position in the church. I would advise you to concentrate on researching that instead of saying such things about people who are just as concerned and hurt as yourself. If 11 years at Pathways hasn't earned you the right to ask a hard question of the pastor and the leadership, I don't know what has! I also found your use of profanity unnecessary and inappropriate in what is obviously a Christian forum.

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  15. Okay...this is just getting a little weird.

    It is one thing to have a discussion about embezzlement and theft when it was announced to a membership of 6,000 people in Florida. Some of those posting here were in that audience and actually heard Brad apologize and take responsibility for what he is accused of doing.

    It is another to warn others against the small group ministry of a local church. I and others who have posted here have been in small groups at Pathways and have IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS ever seen anything or heard anything that would back up what has been purported in the previous post.

    I did some research on this concept of "Blackwhite". It was actually a term used by someone who was DISAGREEING with the power structure of the AoG and was used in a disparaging way to point out the absurdity of some of the AoG's policies. So...it would hardly be used then as a secret cult agreement by the very people it was meant to insult!

    Pathways does have an AoG background and the leadership there is exclusively from AoG backgrounds as well. I agree that if you are functioning as AoG you should have it on your sign - however, they do let you know of the AoG background in the membership meetings and there is opportunity to ask whatever questions you would like BEFORE joining the church. I suspect most people do not understand the significance of the AoG background theologically, and probably couldn't tell you the difference between denominations of any sort.

    The services and small groups of Pathways don't look any different than any of the other large evangelical churches in our area, such as Alliance, Christ the Rock, Calvary Bible Church...etc. Most of the believers that attend there are NOT from AoG churches - they are new believers or people who have chosen to attend Pathways in lieu of one of these other churches.

    Of all the things mentioned in the previous post, "speaking in tongues, hands-on faith-healing, slain in the Spirit, and the most un-Christian belief that 'salvation can be lost'", I only observed "speaking in tongues" the whole time I went to this church. None of these topics was ever preached from the pulpit, nor practiced in any way in public meetings or small groups I was a part of. The speaking in tongues was practiced in prayer meetings and was a turn off. They do not follow the teachings of Paul in the letters to the Corinthians as regards the proper use of this particular spiritual gift. In the grand scheme of things...I think I can forgive them for that. :)

    Please don't turn this post into an attack on Pathways Church. It was a handful of people there that made the decision to hire someone with a proven record of dishonest, immoral behavior to be their spiritual leader. The consequences of doing so are their's to bear. The vast majority of folks that attend Pathways every week do so out of a genuine love for the Lord and a desire to serve Him - they are also woefully ignorant of the discussion happening on the internet regarding Brad's fitness to serve as pastor.

    p.s. Billy Graham is a southern baptist - the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary actually has an entire building dedicated to him. George Bush is a southern baptist as well - he was brought to the Lord by Billy Graham.

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  16. www.http://blog.kennow.net/2010/06/making-rounds-pathways-my-first-mega.html#comments

    Check out the comments on this blog. Just read through all of the comments under Chad's blog about his visit to Pathways. I think there are about 26 or so comments. A couple of them explain all of the details about your question regarding the factuality of this situation and why it was never reported to either the police/law or the press. This was something the church leadership (SR Pastor anyway) wanted to keep very, very quiet. After all, people might leave in disgust and potential visitors might not come and, heavens forbid, the offerings might drop. In the end, it's always about numbers and money.

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  17. We left First Assembly of God Ft. Myers over our disgust with the large amount of $ Brad stole and the way the situation was handled by Pastor Betzer. Its ALL true. Brad is paying back a VERY SMALL portion of the stolen monies. He hired a VERY nasty attorney during the process to fight the consequences (not biblical) He pays something like $200 a month. Im sure his daily lunches with his friends are that amount. I hear he took his family on a luxury vacation recently. Nothing has changed. His life has actually financially improved since he was fired for being a thief. That is messed up!! He drove a BMW while at First Assembly in Ft. Myers, while people without cars walked to church. It was stated during open membership meetings on this topic, that 2 other employees of Brad's over the years also knew he was stealing. It was reported he stole from Angle Tree monies. They reported it, but nothing was ever done. I know these two women personally and they lie not. Pathways..your pastor is a wolf in sheep's clothing, out for GREED and fleecing the sheep behind a charismatic personality. He loves to turn on the tears when he preaches and act very spiritual. It reminds me of a saying "When the Devil is exposed,he weeps and speaks of love." I pray this man repents, but his very employment at Pathways was done in a dishonest way through a total cover up. I feel very sorry for the dear people there.

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  18. According to those posts on Chad's blog, there are two people who posted there that were in the audience at AoG Fort Meyers when Brad got up in front of everyone and read an apology letter and took responsibility for what he did. This may have not made the papers, but it sounds like it was announced to the church body.

    I'm not surprised at all that the church didn't contact the authorities. Churches are 501(c)3 organizations. One of the five situations where that tax-exempt status can be revoked is personal gain by those in authority in the organization. They stood to lose a whole lot more than the money Brad Liebe and others may have benefited from or outright taken. Frankly, they should be turned into the IRS as well. Ft Meyers AoG choosing to handle things this way is just as suspect as the behavior they accuse Brad Liebe of.

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  19. I attend Pathways and I guess the people I'm most upset with about this is the board. They had an obligation to find the very best candidate for pastor because they hold the trust of the people of the church - who are afterall the ones who will be paying him.

    How can they justify choosing to employ someone whom they knew had a record of defrauding God's people? Where in the scriptures do they think it gives them the authority to make such a choice and not even inform the congregation? Lastly, how in the world did they think they could keep the details of this under wraps? Brad angered and disillusioned a congregation of 6,000 people in Florida - did they really think this wouldn't come out? Holy cow, talk about a naive and ghastly lack of wisdom!

    If these things are true, the board at Pathways should do two things - repent and resign - JJ Eaton, the chairman, should be the first to do so.

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  20. Listening to Brad read a "so-called" apology statement on the Sunday after it all "came down" is NOT the same thing as repenting or taking responsibility for it. Yes, indeed, he did say that he did what he did but was never honest about the amount stolen. We are talking about nearly $700,000 here! He did not even LOOK at the congregation. His head was down and he very quietly read his written out letter of apology (if that's what you want to call it). I was there. I heard it and saw it all; as did some 4,000 - 5,000 other people in the congregation. You are right, the way it was handled by the SR Pastor at First Assembly was dead wrong. He is absolutely at fault as well. It is absolutely suspect. No one here is defending First Assembly in any way for their part in this whole debacle. In fact, the SR Pastor never has told the whole congregation just how much money it turned out was involved after the external auditors got finished. We were lead to believe it was around $200k-$300K when indeed it turned out to be closer to $700K.

    It would be a good idea for everyone to study 1 Timothy 3 (the entire chaper) but especially verses 8-12. Persons within the church who become guilty of serious sin or moral transgressions disqualify themselves from the office of pastor or deacon in the local church. Such individuals may be abundantly pardoned by God's grace, but they can no longer model unfailing perseverance in faith, love, purity and sound doctrine; they fail to model the love that Christ has for His Church (1Tim. 4:11-16; Tit. 1:9). Already in the OT God had made it abundantly clear that the leaders among God's people were expected to maintain high moral and spiritual standards; if they did not, others would replace them (see Gen. 49:4; Lev. 10:2; 21:7; 17; Num. 20:12; 1Sam. 2:23; Jer. 23:14; 29:23). Furthermore, the principle from 1Tim 3:2,7 tht a bishop (pastor) "must be blameless and "must have a good report of them which are without" (i.e. have a good reputation) raises questions about a "fallen" leader being restored to leadership. God does indeed forgive any sin listed here or anywhere else for that matter IF there is true Godly sorrow AND REPENTANCE for that sin. Let it be clear that such a person may be mercifully forgiven and restored in his relationship to God and the church. However, there are also some sins whose devastating effects never go away entirely and thus linger on for the individual, even after forgiveness, both within and outside the church. In such cases, the "fallen" leader can no longer be considered blameless and above reproach. They cannot ever be a righteous exampe to the body of Christ or officially lead again with righteous ingegrity or "a good report." The Assemblies of God leadership offered to allow Brad to go through a two year formal "restoration" program but, once he got the job with Pathways lined up, he refused to continue with that program. Personally, I don't agree with the AOG policy of restoring "fallen" pastors or leaders in the first place due to the reasons listed above in Timothy. The entire concept is unbiblical.

    It is also true that he is paying back a paltry sum of around $200 per month. Do the math people! He stole nearly $700K and he's paying back $200 a month? It would be impossible for him to even live long enough to pay back that much money at that rate of payback.

    Oh, from your last sentence "is just as suspect as the behavior they accuse Brad Liebe of," remember that it isn't just that he was accused of this and denied it. He admitted it. So it is NOT a false accusation of any kind.

    No one is trying to tell anyone what to do here. This is simply a matter of believing that the PEOPLE of Pathways have the absolute right to know the entre truth of the matter. Because they sure aren't going to hear it at the church or on CNN. Do whatever you want to do or don't do anything. It's a personal choice.

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  21. To the Sept. 16th 7:31AM commenter,

    You are totally right. The big question is : who knew what and when did they know it? If the Board truly knew it all before he was hired, then, yes, they are responsible. The Bible clearly warns us of all this type of stuff going on. All the "wolves in sheep's clothing, etc." Maybe you can somehow find out who actually knew what and then hold those people accountable. Yeah, I know.....hard to do. It's hard to fight the "system." Don't forget that Brad's father (the state director - or whatever they call it there -for Wisconsin AOG)probably had a whole lot to do with finding him a job. You know.....it's not what you know or how Godly you are; it's WHO you know!

    Don't think that you are alone. The entire church "system" is messed up big time. This kind of thing is going on everywhere you look.

    You want to hear somthing ironically funny? A couple months ago, a local reporter/journalist did a big front page article in the local Sunday paper about another church down here whose pastor or priest or whatever stole (or misspent) a million dollars at St. Leo's Catholic Church in Bonita Springs, FL. The article then went on to talk about some other similar situations in churches here. NEVER did they mention First Assembly and the $700K that went missing there! Instead, they actually had the nerve to interview the current SR Associate Pastor of First Assembly on the precautions that they take to prevent this kind of thing from happening! They certainly never mentioned how it had happened to them too. It was very maddening to read that. If you'd like to read that article you can go online to The News-Press and look at the Sunday, July 24, 2011 paper. The title of the article is Church Money Leads To Temptation by Frank Gluck. His email address is fgluck@news-press.com. I wish someone would send him a letter or email asking why he didn't talk about the huge theft/embezzlement that occurred at First Assembly just a few short years ago!!

    Those of you who care enough to hold the leadership of your church accountable should get together and talk about it.

    I hear nepotism is running rampant there too now with Brad's brother being employed there, etc. God bless you and best of luck!

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  22. I went to High School with Brad Liebe in Waupaca. I am not at all surprised of the story and his sense of entitlement. He has been bailed out by daddy on other occasions too. I remember one time where we were at a party that got busted, alcohol and drugs- tho I didn't see him partake in the drugs, he was drinking and got a ticket like the rest of us. However... when the Waupaca Post came out his name was ommitted from the kids that got busted. He was also allowed to play in the basketball game the other guys that were at the party were not!
    Brad was also very popular in high school and knows how to turn on the charm. Im not surprised either that he has followers. Everyone wants to be groped by the hot jock/pastor.

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  23. I wonder if the pastor of Alliance Church in Appleton was aware of Brad's background when they asked Pathways to partner with them for a Habitat for Humanity build? I don't think anyone involved in this thought it through about how many people this would impact and how even the people and leadership of other churches would react when they found out.

    The board of Pathways had no right to make a decision to hire someone with a background like Brad's and the fallout from this lies squarely at their feet.

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  24. Don't automatically assume that the board knew about this before hand. Mike Randerson was in charge and called all of the shots when Brad took over. Even though Pathways has a board of directors, or what ever they call the board, Mike was "king". So, you need yo question what authority the board has. If they have the power to do something about it, and didn't, then the board has some explaining to do.

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  25. Its true that Brad Liebe was made to stand up in front of the WHOLE congregation in 2 services and confess that he embezzeled a shit load of money from church accounts. He did this with zero remorse. He was embarrassed that he had been caught. Oh the tales and web of lies he spun in those yrs. It came out that he would purposely keep the budget people separate from the audit people and the church counsel. He spun these plates and it worked for several yrs until finally the head bookeeper could not keep silent any longer. He manipulated her and put great fear into her...spiritual ABUSE. Praise GOd she finally rated him out. We're talking about several thousand people hearing the confession. We were told to not speak to reporters. Pastor Betzer is very persausive and it seems like we all "obeyed". Brad was given a severance package ...can you believe that?? The WHOLE congregation was told to send cards of encouragement to him. WHY?? To encourage him that maybe he'll get a pastorate somewhere else and have free access to set himself a high salary with all kinds of travel expenses,nice cars, IPads for his kids, etc.? This guy is a HUGE spender of "GM"...God's money. It was publically told to our congregation that he remodeled his house in town as well as his vacation home up north with much of the monies. The IRS was contacted. We were told that if Brad did not start paying the monies back by a certain date, then he would be turned over to the IRS. Now that my spouse and I no longer attend there, we can see the strong control the Pastor has over telling people what to do and encouraging them to comply. Pastor Betzer is my brother in Christ and he's done a lot of wonderful things for God's kingdom, HOWEVER..this is whacked that we were told to keep this hush hush. I suspect he was worried about sullying the church's reputation and his own. Brad has somany friends left in the Ft.Myers church. I expect that when people at Pathways find out , many willcontinue to support him. Most people dontmind having a wolf as their pastor as long as he makes them "feel" good and tells them what they want to hear. I was told privately by a friend who hosted an MC intern student that Brad was mishandeling money when he was in Copenhagen. This itern worked with him before he came back to be the Associate pastor in Ft. Myers. This guy has an entitlement mentality and he is dangerous when it comes to the monies that God provides through our hands to give into God's kingdom. Pathways...you have been warned! You need to look passed how "nice" he is, how "sincere" he is, how he "cries" at the pulpit, how funny his "jokes" are, how "handsome" he is. WAKE UP

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  26. Did you personally hear the confession that he stole the money?

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  27. Yes, I did along with the other 4,000 or 5,000 people who were in church that Sunday morning. The sanctuary holds about 2,500 people and there are two morning services. The 11:00a.m. service was full as it usually is. Basically, neary everyone in the church heard him make his confession. First, the SR Pastor, Dan Betzer, came up to the podium and announced that this morning's service was NOT going to be recorded, be on TV, live streamed on the computer or be on the radio or taped in any way. Then he briefly explained what had happened and then he had Brad come to the podium and Brad softly and quietly read his written out apology letter. He never once looked up at the people in the audience/congregation. He showed no remorse really other than remorse at having been caught. Later on, we had several "update" congregatonal meetings from time to time held by Pastor Betzer where he updated everyone on what was going on, what the internal and external auditors found, what was being done legally, what the AOG headquarters lawyers were doing and, eventually, what Brad's lawyer was doing, etc. It is also true that the church "sent him packing" with a nice $30K severance package so that he could move his family back to Wisconsin so that "his wife and family" would not have to suffer. Nice, huh? He had already used $700K of the church's money but they just had to give him some more as a nice parting gift! He remodeled his home in FL AND his home in Wisconsin on First Assembly church money! He also by the way)bought Rolex watches for his parents on the church's money. His father, later on, returned the watches when he found out about where the money had come from. In fact, in the end, that is how he finally got caught. The church Business Manager wondered why there were so many charges on the church credit card at a lumber yard type store in Wisconsin where his house was located. That was his downfall. He had gotten by with it for so many, many years that he eventually got sloppy and got caught. There isn't much more I can do to convince you that this is all true except to say that it is. Many, many people at that church were irreparably damaged. Many left the church forever and gave up on God due to the distrust of pastors after this incident. I did not. I fully trust GOD but not necessarily church leadership anymore because I have seen this sort of thing happen many times. I have not and will not ever give up on God. But.....I will forever be very cautious about where I choose to worship and with whom. KNOW the Word of God yourself very well so that you will be able to discern the wolves in sheep's clothing. They are everywhere around us in these latter days. Jesus clearly warns us about this.

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  28. Totally true..just the way you stated it..very accurate. Those of us who attended First Assembly of God in Ft. Myers Florida KNOW what happened. Each open meeting to discuss the "update" on Brad grew more discouraging then prior meetings. The District Presbyter attended a few meetings too. If you dont believe these reports then call FAOG and ask to speak to Brad's replacement Pastor Dave Thomas. He's a nice man. I think he would give you and honest answer. If you chose to not believe..then by all means continue to give God's money away to this man. Make it easy and put it directly into his pocket

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  29. I just want to thank all of you in Florida. This must have been extremely hard for everyone it touched. I and many others appreciate your concern for us here in Wisconsin. God Bless You.

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  30. wisdomseekerprov4,
    Can you go to Chad's blog and post a link to yours? There is someone on there who needs to see these last few posts. He disabled Anonymous and I don't have the ability to use the other choices for posting or I would do it myself. Thanks for all you've done.

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  31. I pray that the congregation at Pathways is not turned off to God's word because of all that has happened. I left Pathways about 8 months before Pastor Mike left because I was not being fed spiritually. I went one Saturday and thought Brad did a good job of actually teaching the Bible, but some of my old friends were cold towards me that night. There is always going to be "preachers" who are in it for the money. May the Father deal with this situation in his way and time.

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  32. Lots of information is now on craigslist as well about this situation. Very telling first person accounts from people who attended Pathways. http://appleton.craigslist.org/rnr/

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  33. http://appleton.craigslist.org/rnr/

    On Craigslist in Appleton, WI (see above link), you can read many, many, many comments from people who actually attend or used to attend Pathways. Scroll down and read all of the ones marked Pathways. There are several of them from today's date (9/19/11) back to about 9/13/11 under the R&R (rant & rave??) section. Some good information there. For example, from a former staff member who was there and knows first hand, the Pathways Board DID know all about this stuff BEFORE they hired him! You should hold THEM accountable Pathways! If you allow this to continue on, then YOU are a part of the problem. God is not pleased. He does not wink at sin. I especially liked the comment from the man who tried over and over and over again through phone calls and email (even direct email to Brad) to get some marriage counseling type help. NO RESPONSE from anyone at all from the church. No response at all!. Then, he decided to play a little trick and sent email saying he wanted to speak to someone about making a large contribution to the parking lot campaign (or whatever). He got a response back in 20 minutes!!! Then he sent copies of all of his emails and phone call records showing all of those calls and emails he had made about the need to talk to someone about his marriage situation. Never heard a word back from anyone! Now that's a true shepherd taking care of his flock, isn't it? NOT! Wolf, your wolf hair is showing under you sheepskin costume.

    (Thanks for the lead to the Craigslist postings "Anonymouse Sept. 18, 2011 5:56P.M.)

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  34. Sorry - that was a typo. It's supposed to say "......Anonymous Sept. 18, 2011, 5:56P.M.

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  35. I have been attending Pathways for almost 4 years, I didn't want to believe this when I first heard about it earlier today. I am numb and feel sad..

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  36. This is so sad... I feel bad for everyone at Pathways who is and was lied to. This is awful.

    There is no way around it, the Bible makes it very clear, people who have committed these acts are not allowed to hold the position of pastor.

    If nothing else is done about this, at the very least the congregation should be made fully aware of Brads history. They have that right to know and deserve to know who exactly they are following.

    Even if a small bit of this story is accurate, Brad has been harboring this secret. I'm sure he understands the repercussions of this getting out.

    As painful as it may be for those attending Pathways, you need to know the truth and need to make sure that the entire congregation is made aware of the truth, no matter what that may be.

    If Brad is indeed guilty of these acts, he needs to removed from his position ASAP>

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  37. I have to say that what I've read here is absolutely appalling. Even though there are no newspaper articles or other documentation to back up all of the egregious claims, they do seem credible. Even an amazing imagination would be hard pressed to fabricate the details that were revealed. Couple that with the bits and pieces that Brad himself has said to Pathways, and all of the parts fit together perfectly.

    The Bible makes it clear that a person guilty of committing crimes such as these is to never be allowed to pastor again. Not after he repents, not after he pays a fine, not after he apologizes, not after he takes a "class". He is to never lead again. Period.

    Don't ignore this simple fact in favor of your love for the "Brad" you see every Sunday.

    The question remains, what can be done about this?

    The most important thing to do is educate yourself and all of the other church goers that attend Pathways. I encourage everyone to spread the info that has been reported. If it is false, Brad should have no problem proving it. If it is even partially true, he needs to step down.

    For those of you reluctant to share this directly, Google "anonymous email" and use one of the free sites to email those you know who need to know this story.

    It's vitally important that people who commit these acts be brought into the light and protect Gods people.

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  38. Wait a minute: "If these allegations are true?"...They are TRUE..my spouse and I were there to hear the gory details along with several thousand others. Believe me, no one feels sadder than the 97% of official membership at First Assembly of God in Ft. Myers FL. who voted this huckster in as Senior pastor to replace Pastor Betzer. Praise God that 2 weeks later God Himself said "no way" and put the brakes on to our foolishness. God exposed that which was festering and profiting in the dark. Praise God Brad Liebe has permanently left the building down here!!!

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  39. Yes, forgot to mention that particular detail. Dan Betzer, SR Pastor of First Assembly of God in Ft. Myers, FL had JUST announced that he was FINALLY going to retire in one year's time. In other words, he was giving the church his "official" notice so-to-speak that he would be leaving the church in a year. If I recall this correctly, he would be turning 70 I think it was at the time of his retirement, after having served as Sr. Pastor for 20 or so years. He was definitely looking forward to it he said. He STRONGLY encouraged the church to elect Brad Liebe (who was then the SR Associate Pastor) to replace him as SR. Pastor. So...the church duly had their election and Brad was nearly unanimously elected. He had overwhelming support. After all, everyone loved and totally trusted Brad. I mean, who wouldn't?, such charm and charisma, personality, nice looking, sense of humor, etc. Turns out....he's nothing but a WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING. A true shepherd will PROTECT the flock. He needs to be permanently removed from any and all church leadership. Permanently! IF (the big IF), he truly repents, God can graciously restore him back to Himself (God) and he can even be restored back into the church BUT NOT AS A LEADER OF ANY KIND. His reputation is NOT of good report. He can never be considered as being "above reproach." Now.....before all of you "God is love" people who only choose to believe in God's mercy but totally discount that He is also a holy and RIGHTEOUS God who also JUDGES His own people, please understand that Brad has done this to himself through his own horrifyingly evil and bad choices! He has no one at all to blame but himself. Study the WORD of God for yourself people. Study the books of Timothy, especially 1Tim. It's all in there and in other places too. There are QUALIFICATIONS for leadership within God's TRUE Church. It has NOTHING to do with educational schooling or years of experience standing up on a platform preaching either. Read it ALL for yourselves.

    By the way, I know someone who said that in their private prayer time one day along about that time the Holy Spirit had led this person to pray something along the lines of "God, whatever is hidden in darkness, let it come out into the light." Who would have guessed? God definitely does answer prayers. It wasn't even two weeks later when all of this embezzlement/misuse of church funds came to light and Brad admitted it and was gone.

    Pastor Betzer never did retire. He's still there. Don't really know what the motive for that is but...... Probably doesn't trust anyone else to take over HIS Church, his legacy, etc. ME, ME, ME. Why is everyone so self-centered? I've got news for all of you "GREAT" church leaders. It's not YOUR church! YOU have nothing to do with it. It's God's Church (the real Church) and YOUR church building means nothing to God. Get over yourself! Repent before it's too late!

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  40. Had to break this into two posts.

    POST #1:

    I truly believe that people from Pathways church need to bombard the church office with phone calls to speak to the governing board about the appointment of Brad as pastor. The man didn't hire himself.

    I have it on good authority that his hiring initially as an associate pastor was done by Mike Randerson as a favor to Brad's father. Mike ran the church into unbelievable debt by purchasing their current building on an interest only loan and then decided to step down because of health reasons. Brad was then appointed as Senior Pastor - no one else was interviewed or considered for the position. No advertising was done to attract viable candidates, nor was a selection committee put together with representatives from the congregation to try and find the best possible candidate for the job - a common practice among evangelical congregations.

    The board fully knew about Brad's past, Mike Randerson fully knew about Brad's past, but the congregation WAS NOT TOLD about Brad's past. This church would not have hired a bookkeeper with this record of conduct, but it's okay to appoint a Senior Pastor who has stolen hundreds of thousands of dollars from a previous congregation?

    We left Pathways because of the appalling lack of concern about Brad's spending habits and the constant flow of money out of the budget to family members involved in ministry. His father is the chairman of a ministry in Milwaukee that was given tens of thousands of dollars from Pathways - in return, select members of the Pathways congregation were asked to go to a banquet that featured George Bush as the speaker. That fund raiser was $10,000/table!! Brad was looking to impress Dad and others who he hand-selected from the congregation. He spent this money while he was also standing in the pulpit telling the congregation that there was no money to repair the parking lot or the roof!!!

    Brad appointed his brother to a position at Pathways that was previously held by a woman with a title of "director". When his brother took it over, it was converted to "pastor". Does the sex of the inhabitant determine the title of the office or the fact that he hires his own brother onto his staff? He did the same thing in Florida - hired his brother there as well.

    Brad's other brother from Waupaca became a member of Brad's congregation in order to receive missions dollars when he and his wife decided to serve in Romania. He had never been a member of Pathways and it was not Pathways where he supposedly received a "call from God" to go to Romania - he joined to qualify for financial support.

    Brad's brother-in-law was also given a prominent spot during missions week at Pathways and received special offering monies from three services for his ministry.

    Everyone of these people are his family - they knew full well that he stole huge amounts of money from his last congregation and yet they are happy to stand there with their hands out to benefit from his current pastorate position as well!!!

    The board may not let him near the money, however, they let him spend it like there is no tomorrow.

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  41. POST #2:

    How many of you received the "special invite" to Brad's house during the Project Cornerstone building campaign? For those of you who didn't, I believe the leadership actually went through the giving records and issued those invites to people they felt were in the best position to give them money. Did you hear the story as well of the guy who couldn't wait to be the first to give one-million dollars to his church - told by JJ Eaton the chairman of the board? How sickening! The shameless pursuit of money and prestige is what made Brad fall in the first place - you don't have to have your hands on the bank account to be pursuing the same agenda. The board is just as guilty because they are the ones who went along with a building purchase in the first place that the congregation COULD NOT AFFORD! Then hired a huckster from a huge congregation in Florida because he was obviously good at getting people to give money - I think it's obvious that was the only qualification they considered.

    HEADS UP: You need to know that after the initial first phase of Project Cornerstone where the good people of Pathways made financial pledges at the behest of their Senior Pastor and the chairman of the board, the board and staff approached banks trying to get a line of credit based on those very pledges. They wanted to use YOUR PLEDGES as a down-payment of sorts on a revolving line of credit to operate the church on!! Those pledges were made toward the parking lot and the roof, or so we were told by the leadership. Beg, borrow, and steal comes to mind. Beg from the congregation, borrow from the bank, and steal if you can't get what you want any other way!

    I ask all of you who attend Pathways to look into your Bibles, as well as, your hearts and try and come up with any reason you should be supporting the leadership of this church. Brad's proven character as a Christian is a bible-based criteria for any position of "overseeing" in the church body. His character has been proven and he fails the test. The board fails as well for putting aside the Word of God and functioning on their own flawed theology to justify such enormous debt and the hiring of an embezzler to try and get them out of it.

    Hold them accountable - for the sake of Christ and Pathway's reputation in the community.

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  42. His secretary of many years at First Assembly, Ft. Myers: Michelle Delesandro, is fully aware of what happened in Fort Myers. The screwy thing is that she remained the secretary for the church counsel meetings for a good 2 yrs. after the embezzlement and she knew EVERYTHING that was going on in way of private meetings regarding how our church counsel was going to handle dealing with him, the IRS, etc. She more than likely reported it back to her friend Brad, as she is extremely close to that family. In the business world a board would never allow the best friend/secretary to continue to serve in that position and hear insider info. that could be easily feed back to the perpetrator. Christians are sometimes so dumb and trusting. What in the world was Pastor Betzer thinking?? This is a no brainer. Does Pathways Church know that when she moved up there to be his secretary that she came from First Assembly of God? I hold her responsible too, for knowing the truth and keeping it to herself and from the good people of your congregation. I wish her no harm, as she is my sister in Christ, but her actions were just plane wrong. So, if Michelle is still around..go ask her and see what kind of reaction you get.

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  43. My understanding is that Michelle Delesandro has followed Brad Liebe around wherever he has gone to work for years. Including when he went to Copenhagen for a couple of years to set up a Master's Commission there. He had been working at First Assembly then as the youth pastor I believe; then left for Copenhagen for a couple of years and then was called back by Pastor Betzer and asked to be the Assciate Pastor. So this relationship with Michelle goes back, what?, 20 years or so.

    Most churches are run like businesses today. It's a "machine" and the pastor is the CEO. Not exactly the Biblical model that Jesus had in mind or Paul and the rest of the apostles.

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  44. There is a fantastic post on craigslist synopsizing all the posts regarding this issue. It's the one labeled "Brad Liebe" under 9/22. http://appleton.craigslist.org/rnr

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  45. There is a post on Chad's blog about what the secretaries knew. Interesting....

    http://blog.kennow.net/2010/06/making-rounds-pathways-my-first-mega.html?showComment=1311976868763#c5142493938249620693

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  46. Someone should create a Facebook page with all of this info. The more ways this can be made public, the better all involved will be. Hiding the truth hurts everyone. People NEED to know all of the facts before they make a decision. And a decision NEEDS to be made!

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  47. I just heard from someone that Brad Liebe took his family on a vacation to Hawaii. How in the world can he live with himself knowing that he still owes hundreds of thousands of dollars to these people in Florida while he's relaxing on a beach in Hawaii? I'm sorry, but I think if the Holy Spirit were present in this individual he wouldn't be able to sleep at night until he pays back exactly what he took and then thanks his victims profusely for not sending him to prison.

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  48. I did not write this. Just copied it from today's (10/3/11) posting on Craigslist R&R from Appleton, WI. Well said & well written. It is too long for one post so I am breaking it down into 2 or more parts to fit.

    Part 1

    It has always saddened me over the years as I've watched church leaders bring a reproach on the church of Jesus Christ. What's shocking to me is how frequently Christian leaders sin grossly, then step back into leadership almost as soon as the publicity dies away.

    Some time ago I heard a recording of the recommissioning service of a pastor who had made national news by confessing to an adulterous affair. After little more than a year of "counseling and rehabilitation," this man was returning to public ministry with his church's blessing.

    That is happening everywhere. Restoration teams--equipped with manuals to instruct the church on how to reinstate their fallen pastor--wait like tow-truck drivers on the side of the highway, anticipating the next leadership "accident". Our church has received inquiries wondering if we have written guidelines or a workbook to help restore fallen pastors to leadership. Many no doubt expect that a church the size of ours would have a systematic rehabilitation program for sinning leaders.

    Gross sin among Christian leaders is a signal that something is seriously wrong with the church. But an even greater problem is the lowering of standards to accommodate a leader's sin. That the church is so eager to bring these men back into leadership is a symptom of rottenness at the core.

    Some have claimed that a leader's failure makes him more effective in shepherding fallen people. That is ludicrous. Should we drag the bottom of sin's cesspool for the most heinous sinners to lead the church? Are they better able to understand the sinner? Certainly not! Our pattern for ministry is the sinless Son of God. The church is to be like Him and her leaders are to be our models of Christlikeness.

    We must recognize that leadership in the church cannot be regarded lightly. The foremost requirement of a church leader is that he be above reproach (1 Timothy 3:2, 10; Titus 1:7). That is a difficult prerequisite, and not everyone can meet it.

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  49. Part 2

    Where did we get the idea that a year's leave of absence and some counseling can restore integrity to someone who has squandered his reputation and destroyed people's trust? Certainly not from the Bible. Trust forfeited is not so easily regained. Once purity is sacrificed, the ability to lead by example is lost forever. Chuck Swindoll once commented when referring to this issue--it takes only one pin to burst a balloon.

    What about forgiveness? Shouldn't we be eager to restore our fallen brethren? To fellowship, yes. But not to leadership. It is not an act of love to return a disqualified man to public ministry; it is an act of disobedience.

    By all means we should be forgiving. But we cannot erase the consequences of sin. I am not advocating that we "shoot our wounded." I'm simply saying that we shouldn't rush them back to the front lines, and we should not put them in charge of other soldiers. The church should do everything possible to minister to those who have sinned and repented. But that does not include restoring the mantle of leadership to a man who has disqualified himself and forfeited the right to lead. Doing so is unbiblical and lowers the standard God has set.

    If Christians can lower the expectations on their leadership, they will be much more comfortable with their own sin. With lower moral standards, the church becomes more tolerant of sin and less tolerant of holiness. The "sinner-friendly" church is intolerable to God--that is a frightening condition.

    Conservative Christians have for most of the previous century focused on the battle for doctrinal purity. And that is good. But we are losing the battle for moral purity. Some of the worst defeats have occurred among our more visible leaders. The church cannot lower the standard to accommodate them. We should hold it higher so we can regain purity. If we lose here, we have utterly failed, no matter how orthodox our confession of faith. We can't win if we compromise the biblical standard of moral purity.

    What should you do in the current crisis? Pray for your church's leaders. Keep them accountable. Encourage them. Let them know you are following their godly example. Understand that they are not perfect, but continue nonetheless to call them to the highest level of godliness and purity. The church must have leaders who are genuinely above reproach. Anything less is an abomination.

    It seems clear to me that Brad Liebe committed the egregious sins of theft, lying and deceiving thousands of people. The single fact that he hides the truth proves that he has not repented and can never be trusted.

    Even if you love the persona he displays from the pulpit every Sunday, how can you be at ease following a man who has had his credentials revoked?

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  50. I believe most will stay because they have their own agenda about what they like to do on a Sunday morning. It will boil down to the children's program and their kids, or the worship team and the music, or the fact that they aren't doing anything in the church anyway and it doesn't matter to them that much. Let's face it, if God's people were willing to take the time to actually study God's word and have some conscience as to whether they follow it, it would be a no-brainer that Pathways should be empty this coming Sunday. It would also be a given that they wouldn't have supported a leadership structure in the first place that allows the pastors and the board to do as they please without any input or oversight from the congregation.

    I'm ashamed to admit that the kingdom of God in America is made up mostly of people who are looking out for their own interests and desires when choosing a church - they are consumers, not Christ followers. God has mandated that Brad can not lead. I believe only a handful will decide that setting aside the clearly stated will of God to follow whom they choose is actually something they should be ashamed of doing.

    To summarize, most people will not see this as a personal decision that can lead to a sin issue of their own. They will gossip about it, perhaps maybe even join in the posts on the internet, but at the end of the day their own desires will win out over God's desires - that's how it was possible for this to happen in the first place. We don't hold the leadership accountable because we don't even hold ourselves accountable.

    The leadership at Pathways understands this. They have refused to acknowledge this controversy publically even though multiple people have contacted them to do so. They are waiting us out. They know some will leave. They also know that more will come who don't know about this. As long as the numbers still allow them to pay their own salaries, they will acknowledge nothing. The only voice you have at Pathways is your money and your presence. Seems to me if you wouldn't give your money knowing this, what are you doing there?

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  51. I would like to print flyers with this information about Mr. Liebe and organize a group of concerned citizens to distribute these flyers on Saturday and Sunday at the services at Pathways Church... Anyone interested?

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  52. I would recommend you stand out on Evergreen to do this. They can throw you off the church property. Pathways does not own the Evergreen roadway or the 15 foot easement into the land that fronts their driveway.

    I would also suggest calling the news agencies to let them know you're going to do this. All the local channels have an area where you can report something you think needs to be investigated.

    Good Luck!!

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  53. I left Pathways a few months ago after a behind closed doors argument with Brad. Much of our discussion had to do with the info shared here. I would love to be out there with you, and even help organize. Unfortunately, I'm quite sure that I would be viewed as a trouble maker and therefore hurt your credibility.

    I suggest that you hold off on your plan for at least one week. That way you have some time to rally some support. Not only are there people following this blog, but there are others on Craigs List Rants and Raves.

    Try to reach as many people as you can via blogs, CL, Facebook etc before you take this directly to PW.

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  54. Frank,
    Can you share what Brad's response was to being directly asked about this? Thanks.

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  55. For the most part, the subject of Brads past was "the elephant in the room". Innuendos and references were tossed around.

    When ever we got to close to the subject, he became very irritated and defensive, constantly trying to turn things around and paint me as the bad guy.

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  56. So is there any solid proof that this all happened? From what I can tell it's just hearsay. I find it extremely hard to believe that there is nothing on the internet about this alleged embezzlement. You claim there were about 6,000 followers at the First AoG Church in Fort Myers, yet only a couple of people have ever said anything about it. Please... if $750,000 was taken from that many people, there would be countless "rants" from these people. There is no way that AoG could have swept it under the rug that well. Obviously wisdomseekerprov 4 is on a mission to destroy Brad's credibility; but why is he the only one out of these supposedly 6,000 followers that feels the need to warn Pathways? Come on, it's 3/4 of a MILLION dollars we are talking about here... someone would have blabbed about to the media, especially if Brad had to publicly apologize.

    Do any of us know Brad's financial situation? More than likely he is carrying a mortgage and possibly making car payments. You guys are assuming he's stealing money to pay for all his vacations and vehicles. I highly doubt he paid cash for any of it. He's probably doing what we all do... buying on credit. For all we know, he could have huge credit card debt, a mortgage, and maybe even a second mortgage. Like I said, none of us knows his situation.

    I could sit here and quote the Bible about casting the first stone, not judging, etc.; however, until someone can come forward with SOLID proof this all happened, what you are doing is wrong. It's called defamation of character and is punishable by law. You MUST back up your claims with evidence that proves your knowledge to be true.

    Standing outside of a church property handing out info pamphlets will probably irritate Pathways followers and they will not take you seriously. Personally, I would feel threatened by someone approaching my car while trying to shove a piece of paper in my face. It's also a good way to get hit by a vehicle. There are no sidewalks and there will be a lot of traffic congestion before, between, and after the services.

    Between Craigslist and these blogs, I'm fairly certain that most of Pathways followers have been alerted to the information that you have provided. Many have chosen to stay. Accept their decision and move on.

    If it is true that the church board knew of the allegations and hired Brad anyway, I'm sure they would be doing their best to do damage control. It would be their reputations at stake, as well. Plus, if Brad did lose his credentials, wouldn't that be public information? Has anyone called AoG to inquire if it's true and/or why?

    @Frank: You say there were innuendos and references tossed around... what was said exactly?? Also, did it occur to you that Brad became defensive because you were attacking something he's passionate about?

    I'm just saying that all of this is hearsay, until there is proof or evidence that it happened. He will remain innocent in my mind until proven guilty. I find it hard to believe that there were no charges filed in FL. $750,000 is A LOT of money, and scandals like that never stay silent.

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  57. You're right. Scandals like that never stay silent - that's why you are now seeing them posted here and elsewhere.

    I would suggest you call Ft Meyers Assembly of God and ask them. I did so myself and they confirmed that he was discharged for embezzlement. They told me that they did not file charges because they didn't want the negative publicity. They confirmed that public meetings were held with the congregation, as many have stated here, where the people of the church were informed of what happened and that Brad got up in front of the entire church to read a letter of apology. Frankly, the fact that it hasn't come out in Wisconsin sooner is a credit to their character. While I believe Brad not being prosecuted was a huge mistake, I have to give the people in that church credit for holding their tongues and not causing a major scandal - however misguided that decision may have been.

    Additionally, I would suggest you call Pathways yourself. We did. Three members of the full time staff confirmed that the embezzlement was true, but claimed that Brad told them that he was "set up" by the leadership in Florida. Whatever that means. He either stole money or he didn't. One of those people told us that Brad has an arrangement with the IRS to pay back a portion of the money he stole. Two of those staff people told us that they were told of the embezzlement when Brad was hired and told that if they talked about it they would lose their jobs. These were three separate conversations with three different staff members. This is true alright. We believe the church WILL NOT address this issue publically because they know it would cause a major decline in membership, and more importantly, giving.

    As to the board, if you ask to speak to a board member at Pathways, you will be told that they are volunteers and won't be addressing this issue and that you can't talk to them. You will be forwarded to a pastor. So...the board supposedly hires the pastors, then the pastors are responsible for justifying the board's decisions to the congregation. Good luck with that.

    Lastly, before you judge the motives of others, you need to make a few phones calls of your own. Pathways flat out refusing to address this to the congregation when they have been asked to do so multiple times is unacceptable. People speaking out is the only way for the truth to be known - many who have posted here tried to take a more discrete route for the benefit of Brad and the church - the church leadership are the ones who have ensured that this is the only vehicle available to address this issue by not addressing it themselves in an open and honest way when requested to do so. Additionally, they told us that they are aware of the blogs and craigslist postings and have read them.

    I agree with you that standing at the church handing out fliers would probably not be something that is pleasing to God. However, having an embezzler in the pulpit and keeping that information from the congregation for over 3 years probably isn't either. I understand your initial reaction - it's the same reaction we had. We loved our church and were members there for over 5 years. However, we could not in good conscience support their decision to hire Brad, nor their stance to just ride it out and let people leave. They either care about the people who pay their salaries or they don't. Not addressing this clearly states that the overall numbers and money is all they are concerned about. People are leaving feeling disenfranchised and hurt - they know it and still say nothing. If Brad was innocent, don't you think he would be the first to have gotten up there to dispel the rumors so people wouldn't be upset? Try and use your head, not just your heart.

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  58. FAOG in Fl. blew it BIG time! There were reports about Brad's thieving behavior for yrs. among the secretaries on the inside. He was Pastor Betzer's "golden boy" his "adopted son of his heart" who could do no wrong. Betzer was tired & looking forward to retirement. He was asleep at the wheel. He tried to tell our whole congregation that "No one was to be blamed for what happened", but few bought into that. Few at FAOG Ft. Myers care anymore because the thief is gone and their own "programs" that please the flesh make them happy there. Also, how many believers understand the scripture that wolves in sheep's clothing are to be OUTED? Look it up people. The Apostle Paul would NEVER have put up with this. He would have kicked Brad's butt out the door & turned him over to Satan to have his flesh tormented until he truly repented. Do you understand that this causes the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme Him? How long do you think our precious Lord will put up with it? People will stay at Pathways because all the bells and whistles of their "PROGRAMS" tickle their flesh. Honestly,passing along Brad to another unsuspecting congregation is not that different from the Catholic Church covering up and passing along pedophile priests. Its the same concept. Pathways "pastors" reading this right now...Shame on you. Shame on you for being a part of this cover up and bowing down to Brad's threats. Where is your integrity?? Have you seen the "Courageous" movie yet? Is your heart pricked? Brad may possibly be lost for eternity because those of you in the know are happy to turn your heads the other way and allow him to continue on...business as usual, without open repentance and honesty about what he did. Your "Pastor" has no business leading anyone. He can be restored to the body of Christ, but is disqualified from ever "leading' again. Is it any wonder that people are fleeing from the Westernized institutional church in droves? They're sick and tired of these shenanigans. The ones who wise up in the Lord refuse to give their monies anymore to these mega churches , building programs, high salaries and pastoral "entitlements."

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  59. So, what do we know for certain about Brad?

    We know that he spent many years working at First assemblies of God church in Florida.

    We know that he no longer works there.

    We know from Pathways board members that Brad has "a past" in Florida and that we all should leave it at that.

    We know that Brads father heads the WI chapter of AoG.

    We know that Brad graduated from an AoG college.

    We know that Brad spent his entire career in the AoG church.

    We know that Brad no longer is part of the AoG church.

    We have heard from Brad himself (from some of his sermons) that he had to leave his church in Florida and that it was a very painful time in his life.

    We know that when Brad was first hired as associate pastor at Pathways that no one in the congregation even knew we were looking for an associate pastor.

    We know that Brad was given the senior pastor position when Mike left - without any input from the congregation.

    We know that Brad owns two very nice homes; one in Appleton and one on Spencer Lake.

    We know that Brad owns a boat and a couple of nice cars.

    We know that large church organizations quite often keep the wrong doings of it's leaders hidden. The molestations that occurred in the Catholic church is a great example.

    We know, according to Brad, that he was accused, framed, set up etc by the leaders at FAoG church in Florida of embezzling large amounts of money.

    We know that there is more to the story than what Brad and the board at Pathways are willing to share.

    All of this info is readily available and easy to gather by anyone who attended Pathways.

    Brad took over Pathways in the Spring of 2009, a little over 2 1/2 years ago. How much time should we expect to pass before we hear stories coming from Florida?

    Consider this; the Florida congregation were all instructed to keep silent. On top of that, what church, any where in the world, would want to make this type of thing made public?

    Factoring in the time it takes for the news of Brad leading another church to make it's way from Appleton to Florida (even with the use of the internet), have that news roll around the rumor mill until it finds someone willing to make more of the story known, that person then posting the story on the internet, that story then has to be found and subsequently spread around Appleton - 2 1/2 years seems very reasonable.


    Even if we ignore every story supposedly coming from Florida, we need to question Brads history. We need to know exactly what happened; both sides of the story, not just Brads.

    If we are to follow the word of the Bible, if Brad is guilty of wrong doing as a pastor, he has rendered himself intelligible to ever pastor again.

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  60. And before someone want's to throw around the words, "forgiveness" and "judging", read your Bible and see what it really says. When it come to judging, we are commanded to never question a persons salvation for that is between God and himself; this what the Bible is talking about when it comes to "judging". The Bible oft labels a sinner by the nature of their sin; a prostitute, thief, adulterer, murderer etc. Even forgiven, we are still sinners. A fallen pastor can be forgiven of his sins if he repents. We should also welcome into the flock and love him as we would any other.

    A pastor is acting on a higher calling. It's a position not very many of us have the capacity to hold. Gods word places more stringent requirements on men in this office. If they commit a sin as egregious as one Brad has been accused of, that person can not ever pastor again.

    If such a person ignores this command, everything they say and do afterwards needs to be questioned. What else in the Bible have they chosen to ignore? Do you really want your family and loved ones to follow a person who picks and chooses what parts of the Bible they feel like following?


    The bottom line is this, something has happened with Brad and FAoG in Florida. Something bad enough that Brad and the board are doing what ever they can to keep it hidden. Even if Brad was "framed", the congregation needs to know all of the details.

    One way or another, Brad either put himself, or allowed himself, to be put into a position for these charges to be raised. How those events played out are paramount to the quality of his character and leadership.

    Everyone attending Pathways owes it to themselves and the ones they care about to get to the bottom of these allegations.

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  61. Brad claiming to be "framed" is interesting. Either he actually stole money or he didn't. How can you be "framed" to charge personal expenses to your church credit card? Brad gets away with saying whatever he wants in private specifically because he's not willing to do it in public.

    Brad was not "framed". I believe he was not the only one in Florida stealing from the church, or complicit in knowing. That doesn't make him framed, it makes him guilty among many who are just as guilty. It also explains why the leadership in Florida decided not to file charges. If it was known legally that this was a problem with more than just one person, I believe they would have lost their 501(c)3 non-profit status. The IRS has very strict rules on personal benefit from a non-profit status.

    If ten people were stealing, that wouldn't make Brad 1/10th responsible. It makes him 100% responsible for his own behavior.

    I'd also like to address his assets. Someone has posted here that perhaps Brad is in debt with his two houses, boat, and nice cars. The point is not whether he is in debt. The point is he hasn't paid off the congregation in Florida for every single penny he took. Until he does, he has no business taking his family on vacations to Hawaii, or owning a second home. If Brad had been prosecuted like he should have been, a lien would surely have been placed on his assets and his ability to borrow the money or benefit in any way from the equity in his Spencer Lake home would have been impossible. If he has money to enjoy all these amenities, he has money to pay these people off more quickly than he will do at $200/month, which is what he's currently paying. My goodness, that's got to be less than the monthly payment on his Suburban!

    I would also like to address his family. Brad's children are innocent. However, his wife is a Christian and knows full well what he has done. Every time she put on sun tan lotion on the beach in Hawaii, or walks into her second home in Waupaca, I hope the holy spirit convicts her to tell her husband she won't be complicit in this lifestyle until he's paid off those he's stolen from. She was a victim of this only until she participated in what was gained from it. No wonder she starts bawling every time a microphone is put in her hand at church. I believe she would rather crawl under a rock than have people up here find out what happened in Florida. If she knows what he did, and has agreed to live this lifestyle, she's just as guilty as him - and just as unworthy to hold a leadership position in the church - which was given to her by her husband of course.

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  62. Even if Brad is up to his butt in car payments, mortgages and debt, that alone should be cause for concern.

    We are all called to be good stewards of what God blesses us with.

    If Brad is unable to keep his own house in order, why would anyone believe that he is able to keep a house of God in order?

    No matter how you look at it, Pathways is a broken church. They need to put a call out for new leadership - senior pastor, subordinate pastors and board of directors - and have an informed congregation vote on who will fill the empty positions.

    Pathways can be restored to a Bible following jewel in the crown that is Christ's church.

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  63. So Jana is still crying in front of the microphone? We saw this quite a bit in Fl. She must have known or suspected what her husband was up to. How could she justify all the BIG personal gifts he brought home to her and their children? A wife who has the Holy Spirit inside her...would figure this out folks. I will say that whenever she was asked to speak she would keep her eyes averted and head very low. I feel sorry for her. BTW: Brad wasn't "framed"...he was caught. Isn't this what most criminals says? "I was framed!"

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  64. I left Pathways shortly after Brad assumed leadership and attended it for a short time when he was associate pastor. Once I e-mailed him about him and he did not even reply to my e-mail. It was regarding another issue I had with his service. No acknowledgment, reply zip..even before that happened there was just something that did not seem right about him. I truly believe the Holy Spirit was telling me that something was not right with him and I left that church. I have heard other attendees express the opinion that they also liked Mike a lot better before he had to step down for health reasons.

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  65. Has anyone tried contacting Brads old church? I imagine that if the accusations are indeed true, they would have some issue with Brad leading another congregation.

    A statement such as this would easily confirm the accusations.

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  66. You have not done your homework. IF you had read all of these comments and the comments on the other blogs and Craigslist, then you would already know the answer to this question.

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  67. It's all on here. Several people from Pathways have called and talked to different people (3 at least) at First Assembly. There's plenty of independent investigating going on. It's not hearsay.

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  68. Without a written document, authoritative web site, video of Brad, video of his boss making a statement, evidence from the AOG, news paper articles, etc... it IS all hearsay.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of Brad. But without something concrete - something that can be taken directly to Pathways congregation - it's all just talk.

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  69. What does Matthew 7:5 say?

    Why do you look at a speck of sawdust in your brother's eye but fail to see a beam in your own eye?

    Tell me this..... Are you saying you are perfect and do not sin? What kinda dirt can I find on you? What do you do on the Internet? Do you drink, smoke or swear? Are you without ANY sin?

    Aren't you to go to your brother when you have a problem and bring another with you as a witness?

    Really? Leaflets?

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  70. You might be able to find quite a bit about me - but I'm not trying to lead a congregation!

    When Jesus told us not to judge (Matthew 7:1), He was telling us not to judge hypocritically. Matthew 7:2-5 declares, "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." What Jesus was condemning here was hypocritical, self-righteous judgments of others.

    If a believer sees another believer sinning, it is his Christian duty to lovingly and respectfully confront the person with his sin (Matthew 18:15-17). This is not judging, but rather pointing out the truth in hope—and with the ultimate goal—of bringing repentance in the other person.

    Also, as has been said before, a pastor is to be beyond reproach. If a pastor commits a serious sin (such as theft) they are to welcomed into the flock but can NEVER pastor again!

    Why do people like you pick and choose what scriptures to follow?

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  71. 239-936-6277
    239-936-6277
    239-936-6277

    Get all your questions ready, tell First Assembly receptionist why you are calling and that you need to speak to Pastor David Thomas. He will answer all your questions and prove this is not heresay.

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  72. "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds (pastors) of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the Shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? You eat the fat, and you clothe yourself with the wool, you kill them that are fed: but you feed not the flock. The diseased you have not strengthened, neither have you healed that which was sick, neither have you bound up that which was broken, neither have you brought again that which was driven away, neither have you sought that which was lost; but with force and cruelty have you ruled them."(Ezk.34)

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  73. This is a situation of actions being illegal or not. No different than Bernie Madoff scheme. Scripture has nothing to do. Our judicial system assumes everyone is innocent until proven guilty. What Brad may have done in Florida is not really my concern other than the possibility of a pattern of behavior. As a member of Pathways, I know there were issues of improper use of church funds for personal benefit when Brad came on board. My concern is simple......has he done anything like this since coming to Pathways?

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  74. You're a fool to believe that scripture has nothing to do with this.

    If this truly is your position, what other scripture do you choose to ignore?

    The Bible is clear about this and as a Christian why would you not follow the word of God?

    If Brad is guilty of these accusations then he is no longer qualified to pastor a church.

    Why in the world would you want to follow a pastor who is unqualified?

    And not just unqualified but someone who has had their credentials revoked by the very body that gave them?

    Would you put a recovering alcoholic in charge of the liquor store? Would you put a recovering child molester in charge of your children? Would you trust a stock broker guilty of insider trading in charge of your portfolio?

    Even if you ignore the scriptures about this subject, why would you trust a pastor who hid the truth in order to get a job?

    Brad hid his past in order to get his job. If you knew about his past before he was hired, would you have hired him? - Probably not; and he knows that.

    Instead, Brad and the rest of the church leaders deceived you and every other member of the church. How can anyone claim that this is a Christ following body???

    Don't be blinded by the lies. Follow your Bible.

    Why ignore the very Word you profess to follow as a Christian?

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  75. I also am a member, and haven't returned since this all started coming out. I couldn't tell you if he is still doing it or not. I would like to think NOT! However, even if he isn't any longer, I no longer can trust him. Yes, we all sin and we are all forgiven with God's love. My problem is loss of trust. My family and I will not return until he is replaced.

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  76. I think it would be great if a few of the Florida people would post what they know and/or links to the Brad info on Pathways Facebook page.

    One way or another the current Pathways people need to know about all of this.

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  77. I LUV Pastor Brad and have no intention of leaving the church. I have an idea though. Let's leave him alone. Otherwise we all need to get on the same page. Who's getting the rope? Who's throwing the first stone? Burn his house down? Torment his kids? We all need to get on the same page here. If we don't work as a team this isn't gonna work. Post any ideas you might have!

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  78. You "luv" Brad? Good for you. He and his family need all the love you can give. But you're a fool to follow a thief and a liar.

    You're also a fool to suggest, even if only sarcastically, for anyone to cause physical harm to Brad or his family.

    The bottom line is this; read your Bible and follow the Word of God. Brad is unfit to lead a congregation. Of that there is no argument.

    The board is unfit to govern a church and need to be replaced. Of that there is no argument.

    Don't let your feelings get in the way of what is right. The health and future of Pathways depends on it.

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  79. Jimmy Swaggart - discovered having oral sex with a New Orleans prostitute
    Ted Hagard - preached against homosexuality and illicit drugs, then was caught having sex with a gay male prostitute and using drugs
    David Koresh - Waco Texas...
    Jim Jones - led hundreds of people into the jungles of South America and fed them poison
    Warren Jeffs - now serving life in prison for molesting little girls
    Bishop Eddie Long - sex scandal

    Jim Bakker - siphoned off enough money from his religious empire to maintain a lavish lifestyle for his family.

    Brad Liebe - ...

    Why should your pastor, who is paid with the money YOU give, own two homes, expensive vehicles, boats, the latest electronic gadgets etc?

    How many people could be reached if he lived a life less luxurious?

    If your pastor is convincing you to give, give, give while he lives better than you, there is something seriously wrong.

    How much closer would Pathways be to having a new roof and a new parking lot if the church had the money Brad has spent on the down payment for his house, the mortgage payments and the money he spent on his new cars?

    If you don't see a problem with this then you deserve to be robbed.

    What about the black eye people like this give to believers and Christianity as a whole? Most church leaders have good hearts and lead exceptional congregations. But it's these few that make the news. How many people did just the Bakkers have following them and believing everything they said? How much money did they steal from their followers before something was done about it?

    How long will Pathways attenders allow this to take place?

    You say that you love Brad and don't want to do anything to hurt him or his family?

    As a Christian, you should love him. You should love him so much that you rescue him, his family and the hundreds of others who will turn away from church and God because of one mans ego.

    Do the right thing. Do the Biblical thing. Band together the members of the congregation and demand a replacement for Brad and all of the board members who allowed this to happen. Leadership like that doesn't belong anywhere near a church.

    Direct them to this blog, CL and every place else you can find info on this subject.

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  80. The truth is the people of Pathways need to open their eyes on a number of things and quit following blindly. The fact that he has all his relation hooked up to this money train should be a big red flag. Once a embezzler they usually turn out to be a repeater.

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  81. For those of you who keep saying that we by speaking out are doing the wrong thing: You should know why people are not stepping forward and openly confronting the church. Pathways has had a history of people "disappearing" . Or shown the way out through the back steps. How many people do you know that just stopped coming. Or pastors and board members who were never heard from or seen at the church again. With no explanation as to where they were and what happened.
    I agree that a group should confront the pastor and jj eaton. I personally know people who did do just that . Only one family was allowed to stay at the church. Good luck . You will be told that the church is set up as a single or elder led congregational church . Short version of the meaning . :

    In a congregational church led by a single elder/pastor, primary leadership in all decisions and doctrinal determinations is vested in a single leader. Typically, this leader also performs the duties of a senior pastor/minister and provides the preaching and teaching ministries for the church in addition to administrative leadership. Often, a congregational church led by a single elder/pastor was founded by that singular leader or by a previous singular leader who appointed the present leader.
    Previous leader : Mike Randerson , Who appointed most of the board and the New pastor: Brad Liebe.
    To fix the current situation : There will need to be a complete gutting of the current staff: Pastors Gary, Liebe, Dave and the all of the youth pastors. Ben Fauske must leave . Also since Brad has told members of the congregation that the board had knowledge of the past they must leave also. That leaves only Pastor Lance to lead the church. That is only if the current leaders are willing . Since Brad believes that he did nothing wrong and the church has threatened people with legal action to make them leave . I do not think that this will be a easily won battle.
    Because of the model of the church they do not have to give any thing out. And they will not . As to your statements to those of us who have posted here . The biblical way of handling the situation has happened and people were treated in a non-biblical way. We do not want people seeking God to attend the church of a false teacher. That will only end in bitterness and spiritual pain for those who follow him.
    What can the members of the church do... 2 choices , 1. The church has become obsessed with "mega church" . The numbers of bodies in the building. Find somewhere else to go on Sunday. Absence will speak to these people, 2 . Stand up , confront and demand answers : just not privately . They have had many many chances to fix this . Pick a service get a large group And stand up and ask questions,During the sermon. They may remove you . But it will expose the situation. Just remember they will not make this easy for any one.
    As to the person who just sent their message : you have found out at least 2 - 3 months after everyone else. This as been addressed continually to the leadership and the posts were a last resort to be heard by many people . Do not condemn them for telling others. this only serves those who are trying to hide the truth.

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  82. I just want to let you all know that there is now a facebook account for the integrity christian center/pathways church issues. it is at :What happened to integrity christian center? page on facebook . I invite you to share your information and ideas .

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  83. #1. Pathways is not an AOG church. It is an independent church. Granted, the pastor is a FORMER AOG pastor who has had his credential removed from AOG. That ought to tell you something.

    #2. Why would you continue to go to a church with such a "bad" pastor? God surely cannot be happy with people "condoning" this kind of behavior with their attendance (and tithes/offerings)at these kinds of churches.

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  84. You said, "#1. Pathways is not an AOG church. It is an independent church. Granted, the pastor is a FORMER AOG pastor who has had his credential removed from AOG. That ought to tell you something."

    Pathways is a non-denominational church. Brad is AOG. Brad has spent his entire career before Pathways in AOG. His family is AOG. Brad's father head up the WI AOG chapter. Any church Brad is leading will have, at teh very least, a strong AOG influence and undercurrent.

    You said, "#2. Why would you continue to go to a church with such a "bad" pastor? God surely cannot be happy with people "condoning" this kind of behavior with their attendance (and tithes/offerings)at these kinds of churches."

    For the very same reason people attend Pathways (along with other churches) in spite of having knowledge about the pastors flaws and transgressions, they have built healthy, loving relationships with other members of the congregation. These relationships are the glue of any church.

    A question for you, why are you so angry?

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  85. I agree with the above- we have built healthy realations, inspite of a very dysfuctional church. We keep our eyes on Him and hope there is changes soon.

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  86. Healthy??? Relationships???

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  87. The people of the church have built healthy relatioships- inspite of the Sr. Pastor. This is what keeps us coming back- these relationships that have been formed.

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  88. You said, "Healthy??? Relationships???"

    Since you seem to not understand what those words mean,you might want to bookmark dictionary.com

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  89. Normal??? Would say it better. Send Liebe back to Florida to pay back his debt to the people that he ripped off and then you might just have something at Pathways, otherwise just another bunch of bigots that think they are better than the rest of the world and don't practice what they preach and try to make themselves feel good every Sunday.

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  90. You can't blame the people who attend Pathways but you CAN blame the people who lead them.

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  91. "I wonder if many consider the words of Jesus regarding the last generation of professing believers. Jesus specifically prophesied that only FIFTY PERCENT, 50%, OR ONLY ONE HALF of the last generation of professing Christians will enter into the Kingdom of God! That is a staggering statement and should cause all of us who say we follow Jesus to tremble. Jesus said that, although ten virgins were looking for Him, only five wise virgins will be ready for His return. He is, of course, speaking to the last generation of Christians and warning us to be ready. Brothers and sisters, we must examine ourselves daily to see if we are in the faith. Our salvation is conditional and depends on our obedience to the end. It is very possible for US to break covenant with Him. If we sin, we must confess it immediately and ask for forgiveness so that we may have a clear conscience. We must NEVER try to hide any sin in our lives. Watch and pray always. Let us pray for each other always and for the lost every day. All of us should be holding out the gospel truth to those we come into contact with. Print out tracts and hand them out. Be bold! Pray for our Father to send out more workers into the harvest field, as it is ripe! Now is the time. Tomorrow may be too late. There will be no second chance for any of us. I refuse to lose my crown over any temporary sinful pleasure this soon to pass away world can offer. We are in the battle of our lives for the eternal destiny of our souls. No sin is worth eternity in the lake of fire. Do not allow yourself to be deceived.” Stephen Michels

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  92. I understand exactly what those words mean. I have great healthy relationships with the people inside our church- inspite of the Sr. Pastor. I'm surprised that the IRS doesn't come after Brad.

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  93. The IRS has come after him. That is the only reason that he is paying back any amount at all to the church in Ft. Myers. Prior to the IRS involvement, he was not paying anything. It's going to take more years than he will even live to pay back $700K at the paltry sum of about $200 per month though.

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  94. I find it interesting that the number of posts on Craigslist is decreasing. I don't know how this works but someone is pulling the post. Delete the posts that paint a picture of lies and greed so you don't look bad. "COVERUP"

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  95. Yes, I noticed that too. They are probably paying the staffers overtime to sit around and look up the posts on Craigslist everyday and "report" them ASAP. When they get a lot of "reports" like that, Craigslist will take the comment off the page. No freedom of speech there. Just go back to writing everything on here or else on that Facebook page on Integrity Christian Center that someone set up. No one's been posting there lately either. They do not have control of the comments here and cannot delete them.

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  96. Hi , I am the person who set up the facebook site, I was blocked for about 4 or 4 and a half days for security reasons. the amount of complaints about the posts was very very large. I resolved the situation and now know for a fact that pathways is behind it. But they still do not know who I am . God bless my freedom of speach!!!

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  97. Hi me again the administer of the facebook site. I am an ex-member of pathways church and was very involved over the years . Going back to when the church was by the holiday inn and called integrity christian center.
    Did I make healthy relationships : yes. Did I grow as a christian: yes, did I attend many small groups : yes. Did my children grow:yes . BUT THESE ARE NOT BIBLICAL REASONS TO STAY!!! I have chosen to do the facebook site the way I have for a reason. Over the years I have watched many, many, many people walked out . Assot. Pastors , small group leaders , ministry heads and as a head of a ministry for 3years I saw and was told things that I could not condone. I left once for 2yrs and came back. I left again with my family so quietly that the church still calls me to volunter to help. just last week I received a call. I said yes of course . No one knows we left. I am not telling them. They will not get one dime more of my tithe, that is Gods money . We have been attending a new church and I am praying for the people who are still there to get into the book of James and study what he says about these situations. I invite you to post what you know on the facebook site . allthough the site is watched my hope is that those who have been told to watch and report on it . Will have a turn of heart and see the truth and do something.

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  98. I for one respect Pastor Liebe! This man has been threw some hard times and I feel has paid the price in shame. He has a sin he is struggling with, and we sit here and point our fingers at him and demand he's fired??? As Jesus said, "he without sin cast the first stone". A Senior Pastor position is highly stressful on both himself and his family. We need to stand up with him and offer the help he deserves!

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  99. Holy mackerel! Are you kidding me? You are totally clueless. You just don't "get it," do you? You very obviously do not know anything about the Word of God. You need to do some Bible study. If you're one of Liebe's "sheeple" then it's really obvious that he is doing a lousy job of teaching his flock the Word!

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  100. I'm so sad for the congregation of Pathways. I would never want another congregation to have to endure the hurt that First Assembly felt. It was a very hard time for the church body not knowing who to believe. The only way the church or us individually were able to move past all of this is through forgiveness. Holding on to our hurt was only affecting ourselves...not Brad. I pray he has sought his own forgiveness from God and that he has not given into this temptation yet again. But that is between him and God. We can only live with ourselves and our own decisions. I will be praying for the people at Pathways that this does not destroy relationships with God or the church. This is Satan's playground. Do not let him win.

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  101. Superanonymous, What part of this don't you understand?

    Brad was found guilty of an egregious act. An act that cost him his job and his credentials.

    Even if you decide to ignore what the Bible says about this, why would you want him as your pastor?

    Would you trust Bernie Maddoff with your investments?

    Would you trust a convicted sex offender to watch your children?

    How would you feel if you found out that a teacher in your childs school was caught and convicted of a crime - a crime severe enough to cost them their teaching credentials. Would you want that person teaching again?

    According to the Bible, Brad can NEVER pastor a church again. What about this do you not understand?

    The people talking about Brad's past, and wanting changes to be made, are NOT the bad guys nor are they "evil". If Brad had followed Gods word and not sought work as a pastor, his past would not be such a big deal.

    Brad, by ignoring the word of God that he professes to love so dearly, mocks everything about it.

    Brad brought this all upon himself.

    You should be more concerned for the people attending PW and not a man who mocks the Bible and created the mess he's in right now.

    Don't be like Brad, don't ignore the Word and whit it has to say about fallen pastors.

    Love Brad as God loves you - but never let him lead a congregation ever again.

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  102. Unfortunately, getting anything to change at Pathways is going to be an uphill battle. Brad knows that what he did was wrong. He also knows that according to the bible his actions have rendered him ineligible to ever lead a church again. If he does not know this then he clearly does not know the bible well enough to teach anybody about it. For Brad to step down from his position at Pathways would require him to admit that what he did, and what he is doing, is wrong. It will take a monumental effort to sway him from this position.

    On top of Brad not wanting to admit his wrong doing, you also have Pathways Board of Directors. The ones who knew about Brad's past, hid the truth from the congregation, and still let him work at Pathways will also have to admit that they are wrong.

    Can you imagine the social destruction these people will have to endure? Not one of them are willing to make any changes because they either don't believe that they did anything wrong or their pride won't let them.

    The top of the heap in this mess is former senior pastor M. Randerson. He knew full well everything about Brad's past yet he did nothing to prevent Brad from taking over. Mr. Randerson, as the spiritual leader of Pathways should have been loud and clear that Brad is no longer qualified to lead a church. Instead, he did everything he could to get Brad hired; in spite of the fact that the church was failing financially and could not afford another pastor.

    It makes me wonder what Mike got in return for this underhandedness.

    So, there are a number of people involved in this mess and none of them want the truth to be out there nor do they want to admit any wrong doing.


    It certainly doesn't help the situation any that Brad has convinced many attenders to follow him.

    Brad and the board need to confront this problem head on and stop running and hiding from the truth. God forgives those who confess and repent of their sins. Don't hate Brad, Pathways, the board members nor Brad's supporters. These people need our love even more while embroiled in this mess. Love the sinner but hate the sin.

    I truly hope and pray that the people involved in Pathways find proper, God centered, leadership before the whole church crumbles around them.

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  103. Interesting Post by Mr. Liebe today on Facebook. Brad Liebe
    Just did a video shoot at my Grandfathers graveside in South Dakota. Very moving and inspiring to be "near" him again. Pray I live up to his legacy.

    I doubt that he will.... I do ot believe his Grandfather was a thief.

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  104. So, after having a number of conversations with people attending Pathways, I have discovered a few difficulties...

    First, there are people who choose to ignore Brads wrongdoings and play the "forgiveness" card in spite of what the Bible says about pastors who sin.

    These people are blind to the truth and have been greatly misled. Not only that, but they are staunch in their position. Part of this is because there really are great people at Pathways and the people are the church, not the pastor.

    The other great obstacle in getting anything to change is that many people who know the truth are afraid of speaking up for fear of being kicked out of the church.

    I too hold this fear. I have some great relationships with many people in the church. I hate the thought of being excommunicated from these people.

    Because of this, there are only a few people who I have talked with about Brad. And most all of them came to me first.

    How can we get more people talking about this without Brad picking off the "trouble makers" one by one as they come forward?

    I know that someone started a Facebook group but if someone makes a post they run the risk of being kicked out of Pathways.

    How can we get people to hear the truth without running the risk of ruining relationships?

    After all, the only relationship that should suffer is the one Brad falsely created.

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  105. There were "really great" Christians who turned a blind eye to what was happening in Europe during WWII, but because of fears, comfortable convenience and benefits to the flesh..they stayed silent and turned their heads. Am I comparing Brad to Hitler? Of course not, however the same principal applies here.
    You're saying many know the truth, but because of the "great people" there and because of fear, many/most will turn a blind eye to the fact that the head Pastor is an outed thief. Oh, lets not forget that he is charming, funny, goes around and kisses all the ladies hands (an Eddie Haskel trademark) That guy knows how to make the sheeple "feel good".
    At the end of the day, at the end of the age..those at Pathways who knew the truth about Brad & the board but chose to do nothing (the very least of which is to remove yourself from a false/disqualified shepherd and his "yes men") will have to give an account. Your silence and non action is teaching new/immature believers that its ok to sit under a false/disqualified shepherd...as long as the other church people are "great people."
    Your Savior and Lord had no where to lay His head. He owned nothing, but the clothes on his back. His own brother & sisters turned from Him early on and taunted Him. He lost 5,000 followers in one day because they were offended by His words. The religious leaders tried several times to stone him, curse Him, slander Him, etc. Even the 11 closest to Him wouldn't stay awake and pray with Him through His last night before He was crucified. Well hey, they were tired, they needed their rest, right?. Jesus was ALONE...ALL ALONE. Does He not deserve your willingness & obedience to leave your "great people" if it means that His truth will be stood up for? He is very explicit with you in His word about what your response is to be in regard to following a false/disqualified shepherd. Good grief man, look the scriptures up! At least stop tithing to that outfit. Your tithe is paying for Brad's homes, cars & vacations, children's Ipads,expensive suits, dinners out, recreation, etc.
    Its hard to leave "great people", no doubt. We leave a wolf in sheep's clothing out of obedience to our Lord Jesus. He knows how to recompense all sorrow we may experience because of it.

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  106. "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." G. Orwell

    Tell the truth...then get out of there. You are not helping those "great people"

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  107. Once again the truth will come out...

    The people of Brad Liebe's current congregation at Pathways Church in Appleton, Wisconsin need to know about his history of embezzling huge amounts of money from his former church in Florida. Mr. Liebe was employed at First Assembly of God Church in Ft. Myers, FL for over 15 years. He started out as a youth pastor and over the years rose to become the Sr. Associate Pastor. The SR Pastor's name is Dan Betzer. About three years ago, Pastor Betzer announced his upcoming retirement and he recommended Brad Liebe to replace him as SR Pastor of the church. The congregation voted and Mr. Liebe was nearly unanimously elected to become the new SR Pastor when Pastor Betzer actually retired which was to be about a year after that. This is a large church with approximately 5,000+ members. Within a couple of months after his election to become the upcoming new SR Pastor, it was discovered that Brad Liebe had been using church funds for his own personal use. He was fired immediately and an internal and external investigation was started. He was NOT turned over to the police or charged at any time however. All of this was handled internally within the Assemblies of God headquarters in Springfield, MO. A lengthy investigation ensued and the external auditors came to the final conclusion that Mr. Liebe used upwards of 3/4 of a million dollars of church money for his own personal use. That's nearly $750,000 dollars! Thereabouts anyway. The investigation only looked at the last two years worth of the records. It was alleged via the rumor mill that he had been stealing money ever since he started at the church as a youth pastor many, many years ago. No one knows for sure about those figures or if they even looked back that far. He was offered to be allowed to go through the Assemblies of God "restoration" program for "fallen" pastors and he started that program for a short while but, later, quit. He did lose his license to preach under the Assemblies of God. However, his father is (or was at that time anyway) the State Director for the Assemblies of God in Wisconsin. The next thing you know, Brad Liebe has a new job as the SR Pastor for Pathways Church in Appleton, WI where he still works today possibly fleecing his current flock. He has allegedly been required to pay back only $200K of the stolen money at a pitiful rate of some $200 per month. The congregation of this church has the need and the right to know about these details of his past. Be warned Pathways Church members! He is a wolf in sheep's clothing fleecing the flock. A hireling of the worst kind. Your pastor is a scoundrel and a thief. God will certainly forgive Brad Liebe IF (and that is the big question) he TRULY repents from his heart. However, be aware that, according to scripture, he should never be allowed to pastor a church again ever because he can no longer EVER be considered above reproach. See 1Tim. 2:3,7 (must be "blameless" and have a good report) and 1Tim. 3:8-12. Persons within the church who become guilty of serious sin or moral transgressions disqualify themselves from the office of pastor or deacon in the local church. Someone didn't do their homework when checking out Brad Liebe's references.

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  108. Brad will never leave Pathways as long as he is making a 6-figure salary, not to mention all of his benefits and "mission trip" vacations. He has been out there without a job, he understands there is nothing else he is qualified to do and make that kind of money. He and his family have a quality of life they are accustomed to living. He was willing to sacrifice good friends and relationships at all costs. He is selfish and narcissistic. He cares for nobody but himself. He hides behind the mask of ministry. People like him give Christians a bad name. He is venom to his prey. Shame on his entire family for supporting him and allowing him to continue this charade. They are accountable as well.

    Pathways consider yourself warned. Do not fear this evil man. He has control over you. You are being manipulated by him. He has broken so many hearts and destroyed real peoples lives and careers. These lies should not be overlooked. Get him out of your lives and carry-on! He is not worth it. He is not your God. Why do you sacrifice on his behalf? He has always behaved this way and... He will never change!

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  109. •Brad Liebe, Lead Pastor
    •Ben Fauske, Administrative Pastor
    •Brandon Liebe, Connections Pastor

    Here in lies the problem... Nothing will change until the above gets taken care of.

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  110. Drastic times call for drastic measures! Cut their salaries and I bet they will leave! Money is the ONLY tool that talks to Brad. If he doesn't haves access to money he will be lost... I think it is high time Pathways make some cutbacks!!!! Don't you?

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  111. "December 3, 2011 9:26 PM
    Anonymous said...
    •Brad Liebe, Lead Pastor
    •Ben Fauske, Administrative Pastor
    •Brandon Liebe, Connections Pastor

    Here in lies the problem... Nothing will change until the above gets taken care of."

    I wish there was a like button. I agree with this comment very much.

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  112. As some of you may or may not be able to tell, it seems members of the pastoral staff may have been commenting on these to defend and make excuses about Brad and his problems. After a conversation with the youth pastor, I see the exact same terminology and grammar he uses in some of these posts on this blog along with others. I believe the post about the angry and lost believers was him. It is pathetic that a member of the staff has to make up excuses for his "boss". The boss should just get right in front of the church, with recordings ON, and confess, not leave it to his unknowing flock of staff.

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  113. Know this: "When Satan is exposed,he weeps and speaks of love" I would expect that this is what you'll get/see coming from Liebe when he must finally address his congregation about this. This is a classic tactic of the false shepherd. Ex: "Its because of you..you poor ignorant people, that I came here to be your pastor. I love YOU!!.. Cant you see how much I love you? I love until it hurts. I could have gone anywhere (because I am the best, there's no one like Me) but I came here to you. I sacrificed a great deal to come here to minister to you poor sobs who are so far beneath me. This is hurting ME..all these rumors., etc. blah, blah, blah....Why are you hurting Me, Me, Me,??"

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  114. Oh..uh....ok Brad (or Brad's "armor bearer") What do you want..our names? Why? So you can sick your nasty FL attorney on us? Scroll back several posts and just call First Assembly of God for yourself. Ask for Dave Thomas. He will answer all your questions. This is not rocket science

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  115. Looking for another church.. please help!
    We stopped going to Pathways once all this started coming out about Brad. I have every reason to believe the discussions I've read, as I have been following posts from the very beginning. After being betrayed, we are now without a church to call home.. I have been finding myself becoming much more spiritual, however, really want to keep my Christian faith. I really have a bad taste in my mouth with 2 of the large Nondominational churches one being Pathways AKA the board and Brad. I am open to suggestions.. No more Mega Church Wanna Be's for me!.. TY!

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  116. If you are tired of this craziness going on in your churches, I would highly recommend you read Frank Viola & George Barna's book entitled Pagan Christianity. It will help you understand what the root of the problem is. The REAL church of Jesus was NEVER designed to be anything at all like what we see today. Not even close! I have been in your place looking for new churches this year too. After visiting dozens of them, I finally gave up. Fortunately, God led me to a small "home" fellowship group. I have never been happier or more spiritually attuned & fed. You do NOT need a so-called pastor to "feed" you. Not necessary! Feed yourselves. No more milk. Time for the meat. I have been set free! We simply study the Word of God, book by book, chapter by chapter, and line by line. We are taking the WHOLE counsel of God; not just a few scriptures taken out of context all the time to supposedly "prove" an unbiblical point. No wonder the institutional church is failing the people. They don't teach anyone the Word of God anymore. And the leaders don't practice what they preach anyway and set the example for the "sheeple." Of course, the Word is available for you to read yourself and God will hold you accountable for what is in it. We have to take on the responsibility ourselves to study His Word (to show ourselves approved). Also, you might want to read another book by Charles E. Newbold, Jr. called The Harlot Church System, Come Out of Her My People. It's free. He will send it to you for nothing. Or, if you like, you can read it online. A free ebook. You can get it on his web site. Just Google him. He takes NO money (not even contributions) for his books. Imagine that? He's not trying to make a dime off of the gospel? Now that's a novel concept, isn't it?

    By the way, you "Bradites" (flunkies, so-called "Armor Bearers, " groupies, Pathways staff members, etc., don't waste you breath on the rest of us. We get it. We know the truth (and you do too most likely so quit trying to cover his butt). It isn't very pretty. You, by the way, will also be held accountable by God for allowing this to continue on in your church. The blind leading the blind. Pathways attendees: you are sitting under a false preacher/teacher/pastor. Flee for your lives. Your very soul depends on it.

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  117. Perhaps a list of all the First Assembly of Fort Myers council members and their phone number will make you understand to the fullest extent of Brad Liebe's criminal behavior. Or would you prefer a list of all the pastors on staff at the time. How about a list of all his "confidants" and trusted friends (including Reggie Dabbs) . Would that satisfy your need for proof? Message pastor Dabbs your questions on FB. I doubt he'll want to get his hands dirty, but I guarantee he knows the truth! Brad is a very dangerous manipulator. And the "defenders" at Pathways are right in the palm of his soft, tender hand! He will do this again, you can be sure of it. It's just a matter of time before he's found out. He can't help himself, he's addicted to wealth and the life most of us will only dream of. He has made his dreams a reality on our dime! His narcissistic and OCD disorders have total control over him. I truly believe he can't help himself, combined with having no conscious, make for a very bad situation. We are trying to warn you! Don't be ignorant! If you want everyone's names and numbers to verify that you too have been lied to, then just let us know! It's not hard to figure out! 239-936-6277. It's on YOU now!!!

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  118. To the annonomous person who is looking for a new church after leaving Pathways... First I would like to commend you for eliminating youself from a very corrupt environment! That takes courage and may the Lord bless you for supporting Him and not a false teacher (aka Liebe). It's hard to leave friends and acquaintances that you've shared intimate situations with in your walk with the Lord. And it is hard to find and TRUST new church environments and people. It's scary and having been through all of this with Brad and First AG in Ft. Myers, it causes on to be very weary of who can be trusted. I am deeply sport your path lead you into the doors of Pathways. None of those people have any idea how bad things can and will get! Consider yourself a step ahead for running away from that place. Believe me, no church is worth it when you have to put up with all that kind of nonsense and lying!!! Unfortunately it's been years since I left The AG church in Ft. Myers and I have to find another place of worship. It's sad, but there is such a fear of being lied to again, how can I possibly trust that next guy (pastor)? Obviously, the wounds run deep for me and my family. That us why we are so passionate about all the souls at Pathways finding out and understanding the sad truth about this man the trust to be their pastor, friend and leader. He's fake and flashy and cares for no one but himself. He is very vain and arrogant and cunning and deceptive. Satan supports his efforts because it has caused believers like me to doubt and to fear. Those are Satans biggest tools!!

    I wish you all the best in finding a new church home that you can feel safe at. I'm sorry I am not able to offer you any suggestions. But we have to believe that there are good people and pastors out there. Peace and God's love to you my friend.

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  119. You want to talk about honesty!?!?!? Hahahahahahaha THAT'S FUNNY!!!!!! There is no question that your pastor Brad Liebe has stole in upwards of a half a million dollars from REAL, innocent, good people. No one denies that but Brad and his family. Call the church 239-936-6277... They will tell you everything. They will tell you the truth. The reason I choose to remain annonomous is bc there is no benefit in anyone knowing who I am. This isn't about me. Exposing myself only causes brad and his cohorts to slander me and try to disprove my honesty. Quite frankly I'm not up for that battle... It's behind me and I am choosing to move forward. The only reason we are keeping this dialog going is to warn the innocent people of Pathways. If they (you) choose not to admit that the almighty Liebe's are crooks, then so be it. You've been warned... It (he) is your problem now. Stay and reap the consequences. I guarantee you hurt and pain and shock and sadness and worry and confusion and chaos. Is he really worth it? Really??? Not so much. Calm the church... Get your facts... Then you can apologize to me. I'm not a Brad hater... I truly fear for the lost flock he is leading into his kingdom of betrayal.

    Btw... It is quite obvious that you are Brad or replying on his behalf, or perhaps a family and/or staff member, or maybe even Jana!! AGAST!!! Yes she's a lier too!!! Your heavy defense outed you!

    Best of luck with the nightmare you are engulfed in... Brace yourself, it's only going to get worse!

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  120. Btw.... Why are you annonomous defender if Brad??? If you're so passionately in support of him then you should not be shamed to hide YOUR face and name! Show us YOUR credibility! Let's be honest friend....

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  121. This is an interesting read... I think the point that is trying to be made here is that... If Brad was a changed man, we would all be cheering and praising God for delivering our brother from Satan's grip. However, that does not appear to be the case. People of Pathway's, look around you... your church is being run exactly like Florida's FAoG. Seriously, if Brad would've changed things up even a little bit it wouldn't be so obvious! Every program, every "second" offering, all the "missions" trips to visit his best friends around the world, every building campaign, all of the remodeling and landscaping, hand-selected board and staff members to support him... ALL of it is EXACTLY the same as it was in Florida. (corrupt)

    If Mr. Liebe can't get up in front of his church and repent and ask your forgiveness for his past sins (and outright theft of over $500,000 over the course of 10-12 years), then he is trying to hide his past from you and he's true-blue guilty. Why isn't that obvious to anyone?

    And... Let me also tell you that the board of Pathway's never flew down to FL to meet with the FAoG board. That is an outright lie. Who told you that? 

    Anyway, the truth is all here. It's up to you to believe it or not. Having been through it, I can tell you it's really not worth sticking around to play his game. In all honesty, you (people of Pathway's) will lose. Brad's been playing this game all his life. No one wins but him. 

    Take heart of the advice from all your brothers and sister in Christ on this blog... Either take a majority vote and remove Mr. Liebe  as senior pastor of YOUR church, or run far, far away from him. Otherwise... Stay and watch the storm that's bound to take place... Because, alas Mr. Liebe has not changed. 

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  122. Ask Brad about the "lifetime" gag order his sleazy attorney put on all the church counsel members that were serving during that depressing time. To those of you who want to defend him...go ahead, give your god all your money. Im sure he has more expensive vacations lined up for himself. He is crafty & deceitful. The only ones I feel sorry for are his children. I do not trust him, as he has proven untrustworthy and unworthy of my respect. I will not reveal who I am, as others have also said. It matters not to me if you believe all these posts or not. We do know that the people at Pathways are reading these posts and therefore they have been sufficiently warned. The Apostle Paul would not put up with a wolf in sheep's clothing. He commanded over and over again to rebuke them and openly call them out. He warned the flock against people like Brad Liebe. Dont take my word for it..go check it out in God's word. All you have to do is call First Assembly of God in Ft. Myers. The number has been posted several times by different people. If you're not willing to do this, then you are not really interested in the truth are you?

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  123. There is no shame in making money, however it should be honestly earned. Having been at Pathways this past weekend and witnessing not one offering but two (Project Cornerstone) it becomes in question. Nothing wrong with having nice things also, when they preach that you should live with less and give more and when your family sits front row and acts like they are royality and wears Mavado watches that most of us could not afford it is also a bit overboard. most of the churches that I have visited the pastor doesn't show things off like Brad. You can clearly see when listening to him and watching body language that it is truely all about the show and money. You know that old saying "if you give a guy enough rope". Any questions, just drive by his house in Appleton and the famous cottage in Waupauca on Spencer Lake, not many of the people at Pathways could afford either of those (especialy after giving and giving more). The problems haven't come to the fore front yet but soon will when this goes public in the Post Crescent paper. It is being put together to screw these poor people over, Brad Liebe - Lead Paster, Brandon Liebe - Connections Pastor ?, Brent Liebe - Missionaries, nothing like keeping it in the family. And what about people like Ben Fauske - Administrative Pastor and the rest, if they know about all this and let it continue they are commiting a felony...

    Brad Liebe, 236 E Thornbrook Ln
    Appleton, WI 54913
    (920) 574-2957, valued at 330K on tax role, nice.

    Brad Liebe
    2530 E Birch Ln
    Waupaca, WI 54981
    (715) 256-3781, valued at 77K
    Who of us can afford a two house senario? Unless...

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  124. I'll say it again... Brad Liebe is unchanged, non-repentant, delusional and wants nothing more than your love and attention. He will never change. I would venture to say that his past missions trips have been to Romania, Portugal, Copenhagen and Laos... Those are the only places he ever goes because that's where his close friends and family members live. This is nothing new... new to you at Pathways, but same story different day to the rest of us that have lived his lies for the last 13 years! And I am pretty sure Brad never lifted one of his well-groomed fingers to do any manual labor on those "missions trips".... I am sure he had important "meetings" at the coffeehouse.

    Yes I will back up the claims of the "gag" order that has been placed on the board and staff of FAoG in Ft. Myers. They want this to go away, as not to lose their 501c3 tax exempt status. If investigated by the IRS, that could happen and would be devastating to any church. And of course Brad wants this to go away... AND it could if he would just be repentant and truthful, but he will never admit any wrong. He's delusional.

    As for the hundreds and thousands of people affected by his criminal past... I assure you they don't want to go back to that sad time. It was hard and horrible and took a long time for people to trust anyone again. Friendships were destroyed and masses of people left the church out of not wanting to be a part of the chaos. It was painful! This is years behind us... who wants to indulge in that nightmare again? Stirring the pot just brings up all those awful feelings again. We just want to warn the people of Pathways so they do not have to endure the same kind of pain.

    This is not "fiction" or "slander" or "libelous claims". As bad as it is, it is all true. Don't be so ignorant! There are clearly more than 2-3 people on here trying to warn you of Brad's cunning tactics. I will refer back to the guy who suggested cutting his salary... watch him squirm! What would he do without those $700 shoes!?! or his luxurious cars and boats and jet skies!?! or his Tag Heuer and Rolex watches.... How could life go on without those necessities? People of Pathways make sure you give to those second offerings so that your perfect leader can live lavishly! The only reason he is in the ministry is because he can play the guilt-trip card and convince all of you to give, give, give to poor missionaries, so that he can support himself, his friends and family and look like the most amazing hero. He is such an ego whore!

    Let's not forget how all of this dialog began.... With some innocent guy named Chad and his blogging post about a new church experience. (http://blog.kennow.net/2010/06/making-rounds-pathways-my-first-mega.html). That guy, Chad, nailed Brad to a tee from the minute he walked into the doors of Pathways. Again, I tell you, Mr. Liebe has not changed. He is still the same passive-agressive manipulator he has always been.... And innocent peoples lives are going to be destroyed.

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  125. Hopefully this will help: This is my first post to this site. My spouse and I left First Assembly of God Ft. Myers due to the Brad Liebe embezzlement and the abysmal way it was handled by the Sr. Pastor. Liebe was outed 2-3 weeks after 97% of the membership (including us) had voted him in to take the Sr. pastor position at the end of the yr. We were fools. Why didn't we see the red flags? The Sr. Pastor promoted him for 1 yr. We didnt even get a chance to consider anyone else. It was stated to our congregation that with the majority of the monies he remolded 2 homes, etc. What a huge mess he left in his wake of being fired. This incident forever cured us personally of attending a "mega" church again. Granted, this type of thing could probably happen in a smaller church, but in a large church there are millions of dollars moving through annually. It is readily available. I have also since come to understand that in mega churches the pastors have hefty expense accounts. I take HUGE issue with the person who references his Fl. antics as "mistakes". Excuse me, but being a thief is not a "mistake", it's a felony in this case. Its spiritual abuse and fleecing God's flock. Obviously his charm, tears and attractiveness have taken their toll on you too. He has no business being a pastor over God's precious flock. Ive read in other post that he bought an upscale home in your area. He must have the best of the best.I also heard he recently took his family on a vacation to Hawaii. Is he driving another BMW like he did in Fl.? Do his children all have IPADs now? They were given the best toys money could buy. It was publicly stated in an open meeting by one of his past secretaries that he stole Angel tree money to buy gifts for his kids back when he was a youth pastor. This dear woman went up the chain of command to report him but no one took her seriously. I was there when this was stated by this woman in tears, along with hundreds of other members. What I'm saying is that he had secret life and a method that turned into a criminal lifestyle. Pathways congregation has a right to know these things.

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  126. This is what Assemblies of God Pastors study in Florida for continuing ed.

    http://www.agts.edu/syllabi/ce/2004spring/pthe640martinez_spr04_np.pdf

    Check it out, worth the read, page 4.

    "A business administrator/executive pastor found guilty of embezzlement or significant misaapropriation of funds"

    Brad know exactly what the church would do and how it would be handled...

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  127. More threats from the Brad camp. Shocker! And you wonder why no one wants to come forward? You people are like Christian bullies! I guarantee you if you confront Mr. Liebe on his past he will give you the same threatening tone and "biblical" cast the first stone mantra.

    Who is jealous? That is the dumbest defense I've heard yet! Jealous of Brad Liebe?? Why??? Who wants all the stuff and responsibility and heavy load to carry?!? Not important in my world.

    And I see that you continue to post anonymously.... what is your excuse...? Surely you must have one!

    I don't care if the Brad supporter don't believe us... it's the other hundreds of innocent bystanders that have my heart. You guys can face to Lord at your death and beg for forgiveness at that point. It is completely ludicrous that you would support a false teacher if you didn't have something to gain from it! Money, money, money... the source of all evil.... And for what it's worth, as a Brad supporter, you certainly aren't showing your Christian manners! You are pretty hard-hearted, ill-willed and nasty from what I can tell. Just another reason to flee from Pathways.... Why would you support this kind of harassment? Christian bullying. Shame....

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  128. A repost from Oct 2011, Somebody

    I have heard these accusations against Brad Liebe before and spoke with him directly about it. He states that the old senior pastor of Ft Meyer's First Assembly and many of leaders of that church were jealous of how he brought the numbers up in the church so drastically so they plotted against him. I was under Brad Liebe's leadership for close to three years and I have little good to say about it. He has deceived many including the leadership under him at Pathways. My membership was withdrawn from Pathways after I moved six months ago to a location only a half an hour away. Brad could not handle that he no longer had control over me. We exchanged many emails where he has made comments to be about how I was "venomous" and I was "wolf in sheep's clothing"! I was no longer welcomed on the church's property and if I were to come back without his permission I would have a restraining order put against me. That was again directed to me this Saturday as I drove to attend their 6pm Saturday night service. Within minutes of me stepping into the church foyer I was greeted by the Youth Pastor where I was walked outside on the side of the church (he did not want others to hear us talking) and asked to leave. If I did not leave I would receive seriously repercussions including a restraining order. I did leave, but was drawn back completely by the lack of the love of Christ this church really does fail to show yet preach so much about. Brad never liked that I was so direct towards him and told him how I felt. He more so did not like it when I went public about how he treated me behind closed doors. I came to Brad for help and he only caused me deeper wounds that have made it hard for me to move on to another church.

    A little side note about Brad is he owns two big beautiful house one in Waupaca, WI on Spencer Lake and one in Appleton, WI near Pathways church. Both ranging the the high six digit ranges. He bought the one in Waupaca short after his termination from First Assembly.

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  129. "By whose authority do you do these things?" This is what the Pharisees always asked Jesus. Their power trip was threatened by Him. Several people have posted that they did call his old employer (FAOG) and verified these claims. I am fully satisfied that the truth about Brad Liebe is finally out. He is a thief. He should have been prosecuted by the laws of the land for what he did. Now, it is up to every truth seeker at Pathways to take this info. and verify it for themselves.

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  130. It is shocking that Liebe's new defense is total denial of his criminal behavior!!! UNBELIEVABLE!! That should be concerning to everyone who attends Pathways. I would like to offer this post from October again. It's all there, the whole ugly truth...

    Lets see if I can put all of the pieces together... Brad Liebe spent at least a decade in Florida working his way up the "pastoral ladder" from children's ministries to youth pastor. He then went to Copenhagen for a couple of years to set up a Master's Commission. Pastor Betzer called him back to fill the associate pastor position. All this time, he had his secretary, Michelle Delesandro following him around fully aware of his extracurricular activities of embezzling hundreds of thousands of dollars from his congregation and taking money from the "Angel Tree Christmas Ministries fund. Because Brad was "the boss" he worked hard to keep the budget committee, the accountants etc. as far away from each other as he could. Thereby hiding his underhandedness.

    While in Florida, he hires his brother, buys himself a BMW, gives his father a Rolex, gives his mother a Rolex, remodels his home in Florida and also his home in Waupaca WI.

    Finally, the charges showing up on his church credit card showing purchases for home repair in WI were noticed and an investigation was started.

    After it was all said and done, with Brad having to hire a heavy hitting attorney, he is fired from his position of senior pastor, has his credentials revoked by the AoG organization, hangs his head in shame and forced to pay back a portion of what he stole.

    Instead of following through with the classes and counseling the AoG set up for him to restore "fallen" pastors, Brads father, the head of the WI AoG chapter, pulls a few strings with a friend in Appleton.

    Mike Randerson, senior pastor and founder of Pathways Church, was that "friend". Mike grants the favor to Brads father and hires brad as associate pastor at Pathways. How much the board knew about Brads past in unknown but it is believed that the Pathways board knew all about Brad. Because Mike had full authority over decisions made at Pathways, the board had no say-so in the matter.

    The congregation was never made aware of Brads history and the board, if they knew, was ordered to keep silent.

    Mike appoints Brad as senior pastor and steps down from pathways.

    CONTINUED IN NEXT POST...

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  131. CONTINUED FROM ABOVE POST....

    Brad once again hires his brother, replacing a woman who formally held the position of director, and then changes the position to "pastor". He also has another brother attend Pathways for a few token services in order to be considered a "member" and now Pathways funds his ministry in Romania.

    Brad, tired of driving from his lake house in Waupaca to Appleton every day in his expensive SUV, buys an executive home near his church in Appleton.

    Brad gave a ministry in Milwaukee (chaired by his father) tens of thousands of dollars from Pathways - in return, select members of the Pathways congregation were asked to go to a banquet that featured George Bush as the speaker at $10,000 per table. Brad spent this money while he was also standing in the pulpit telling the congregation that there was no money to repair the parking lot or the roof.

    Brad also puts his brother-in-law, Chris Dudley, in a prominent position during missions week at Pathways and received special offering monies from three services for his ministry.

    For the "Project Cornerstone" building campaign, Brad sends out invites for a party at his new home. Those invited were hand selected buy church leadership based upon their ability to give and their giving records. A story was told by JJ Eaton, the chairman of the board, about a guy who couldn't wait to be the first to give one-million dollars to this church.

    Brad then tried to get a revolving line of credit from the bank using the donations as collateral without telling the church. What he did tell the church was that pledges would go directly to the parking lot and the roof. There was no public discussion about the financing of church operations costs, nor was there ever a discussion with the congregation about borrowing MORE money. He also told the church that they needed to give more money for these repairs because the church was already "over their head".

    Did I miss anything?

    Seriously, you can't make this stuff up!

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    Replies
    1. yes... you missed the part where he was having an affair with his sister in law - Kelly Dudley - Chris' wife ... and giving them money. it continued throughout his time at Pathways.

      Delete
    2. As far as the revolving line of credit, a "gentleman" that Brad knows from another church helped him get an approximately $3million or $5 million loan, supposedly to do all the renovations to the church. And Brad has just recently sold his Appleton executive home, supposedly to downsize as one daughter has graduated and the other will be in a couple years. And he will supposedly be "renting" another home
      somewhere in the vicinity of Appleton North High School.
      And for his affair with his sister-in-law, he was supposedly still involved with her up to about a year or so ago. My question still remains. What kind of Pastor is he, anyway.

      Delete
  132. You are still posting yourself as "anonymous." = Ashamed

    You deleted all your nasty posts. = Ashamed

    You are actually denying that Brad Liebe stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from his home church and friends of 13 years! = Ashamed & Embarrassed

    You only defend him because you are living the good life and are clearly reaping the benefits of being on staff at a lavish and self-indulgent church. Don't you have anything better to do?? Aren't you supposed to be spreading the "Good Word," instead of ranting like a deranged lunatic with an anonymous blogger?

    The proof and evidence is written in several blog sites, Facebook pages and on Rants & Raves on Craigslist (subjects: Pathways, Liebe, Brad Liebe) by hundreds of different people. Do you really think that all these "fictional people" are out to remove a false preacher for no reason at all??? Your defense of denial is completely ridiculous. And the fact that you defend him makes you an accomplice to a felony crime.

    When/if this ever goes to court I assure you there are 100s of people that will come forward to testify against the man that stole their hard-earned money and betrayed their trust. He stole from ANGEL TREE for goodness sake!!! He actually stole from homeless and financially deprived children!!!! What kind of evil, horrible, heartless person does that??? Until then, it is not worth exposing ourselves and enduring your venomous harassment and threats. It is human nature to protect oneself. No one will expose themselves knowing how hateful and evil you guys are!

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  133. I have never posted anything on this blog or any blog before. I have been reading these comments for a while but have never commented. I will keep this short. I am on staff at First Assembly and I can verify that these allegations are true facts. This DID happen just as it has been described. It is only right that the Pathways congregation know the truth and then they can make their own decisions as to what they want to do about it.

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  134. All of the mean-spirited, nasty posts from the Brad supporter have been deleted by someone...? Clearly they are ashamed of their words or had their hand slapped by their boss.

    Thank you for your confirmation First Assembly staff member in Fort Myers. It would be nice if others would offer their confirmation as well since it seems that Brad's new defense is denial of stealing any money at all.

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  135. If you don't believe the statements being made, simply ask Brad Liebe himself if this is true or not. Ask him if he is making payments to FAoG as restitution for embezzlement.

    As far as details go, First Assembly of God in Fort Myers should have minutes from their church council meetings to substantiate all claims. It is my understanding that any member of the congregation can ask to review the minutes from these meetings in 2008.

    If you go to the www.famfm.com website you can email any one of the pastors on staff by clicking on their picture. Ask them your questions. It appears that most of the pastors on staff in 2008 are still there today.

    You can also contact past FAoG pastors that are no longer there, but have first-hand knowledge of the embezzlement event. The pastors include: Jim Arnold, Larry Russel, Brian Finger, Glen Lambert, Grant Williams, Kelly Williams and Corey Baker. I do not have email address or phone numbers for these people, but I am sure you can find them via a Google search.

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  136. I live in the Fort Myers area and have several close friends that work at First Assembly. Brad Liebe was definitely found out as an embezzler and the incident was not reported in the paper. There is no arrest record. Yes it was covered up and he had to leave town. If you believe your Pastor Liebe to be innocent, then go to his office and ask him in person to see what he says about the accusations. Psychopaths and those with narcissistic personality disorder always blame others when they are backed into a corner and they are overwhelmingly charming. Mr. Liebe is a classic case (NPD) of one who will eventually lose his charisma, authority, looks, and excuses.

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  137. Hear this: No one in Ft. Myers NEEDS to PROVE anything to anyone. We were all there and heard it all straight from the horse's mouth (the SR Pastor of First Assembly in Ft. Myers, Dan Betzer.) There were regular congregational church "business" meetings where Pastor Betzer updated everyone there on the latest "discovery" as the embezzlement was being investigated by external auditors. We have no interest in proving anything to anyone. We are simply informing the Pathways members of what happened. They can each individually take it from there and decide what, if anything, they want to do about it. For your information, not every staff person at FAOG was forced to sign that gag order. That pertained only to the church Council members who were involved in the investigation. A handful - maybe 20 or so people. FAOG had about 80 employees on staff. That leaves room for any of the rest of the staff people to talk about it IF they so choose. Some of them have talked about it here. In addition, many of the church members (not on staff) can and have made comments. This is not a "two or three person conspiracy" to attack Brad Liebe. In fact, everyone in the "church world" in this entire town knows all about it. It was the regular talk of all the "ministerial association" meetings in Ft. Myers for the first couple of years after it happened. When a new "pastor" comes to town, it's STILL usually the first thing they hear about as they begin to meet other pastors in this town. "The talk of the town" in other words. Believe it or don't. It really doesn't matter one way or the other.

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  138. Thanks so much for posting that. I believe these allegations because I very calmly and deliberately checked them out for myself with Pathways staff members, Fort Meyers staff members, and the AOG offices. We chose not to talk with Brad directly because I would rather hear from people who have no stake whatsoever in telling me a lie. What does AOG have to gain from verifying they revoked Brad Liebe's credentials for grievance wrongs done in Ft Meyers? What does Ft Meyers have to gain in admitting their own ridiculous system cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars and the trust of their congregation? What do staff members at Pathways have to gain from verifying all this? They could lose their jobs if anyone found out they even posted here. I trust these sources more than I would ever trust Brad himself to tell the truth. It's true - all of it. Anyone can find that out for themselves within a half-hour if they have a mind to. We left Pathways because of Brad's manipulations before these allegations ever surfaced. There is much to be questioned in how Pathways spends money and who is accountable to whom. That alone is enough reason to leave.

    I guess I would just like to entreat everyone here not to be attacking one another. This is what always happens - the people who are most to blame sit back and let their supporters and detractors have it out. Brad has chosen not to reply to these charges publically even when people have confronted him to his face privately. Short of making a scene and being thrown out of a Sunday service, I don't know any other way for those trying to tell the truth to do it but to find other forums that are not under the auspices of Pathways - such as this blog. Pathways doesn't even have congregational meetings, or any forum whatsoever for a public charge to be made - that ought to be people's first clue that something isn't quite right in the administration of the church. If Pathways leadership wanted open communication with those of you who don't believe this, as well as, those of you who do, they would provide a way to do so. They haven't - even though they are well aware this is an ongoing controversy.

    Use some wisdom here. If this were untrue don't you think Brad would have charged to the podium to refute the odious rumors circulating about him? At the very least, don't you think he would seek out the owner of this blog and others to hold them accountable for allowing lies to be spread about him? He's said nothing because it's his most effective way to combat this. He wants his supporters to do it for him with no acknowledgement on his part whatsoever.

    Please, for those of you who are in doubt about the veracity of what has been posted here, at least make a commitment to check it out for yourself before shooting the messengers who are trying to make sure you have an opportunity to know the truth. That opportunity has been given to you by this blog - not by your church. You need to think about that.

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  139. Does anyone know what the ramifications were? How is the church in FM doing? Did anyone else get caught up in this situation. Where are the former pastors that were listed in a previous post? Did they leave because of Brad? Were they involved?

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  140. What First Assembly of God in Ft. Myers, Fl. did was the same thing the Catholic church did when they covered up pedophile priests crimes against children. They quietly slapped the hand and passed them on to someone else. Yes First Assembly of God...you did this!! B.L. should have been prosecuted. Tag..Pathways..You're "It".

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  141. I have been following this for a couple of months now and find it very, very disturbing. I am a member of Pathway's and am hurt, sad, and angry that I had no knowledge of this. I don't know what I am going to do, as I finally thought I found a church I could relate to. I have many friends there and I know they have no idea about any of this. I am going to assume this is all true, so the ones I feel bad about are his children. This who situation is sad.

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  142. The accusations are true and are correct. This is real disappointing that a man of his statue would do something like this. I looked up to as more than a pastor, but rather a close friend. The day I heard the accusations I didn't beleive. Several days later more and more information came to light, even hearing about it through people in other towns that did not even know this man.

    Sure a pastor is just like any other person, they do human things. But that is no excuse for what had happened. He may never have the slightest idea of the effects of his behavior and actions.

    Forgiveness is key; I forgive him for what he has done. I do want him to know that he should reconsider what he is doing.

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  143. Why did the council members sign a gag order?

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  144. Has anyone emailed First Assembly and received a reply?

    I have emailed 4 different staff members and have yet to get any sort of reply.

    If someone has a reply, could you post it?

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  145. The church council in fort myers specifically Dan Betzer has dirty hands as well. I know this because I currently work at first assembly and have first hand knowledge. Betzer calls the shots here and he too has much to hide. Not too long ago Betzer was alleged to have been having an affair with a women in Springfield MO. Betzer also has benefited greatly from his position. He certainly does not want to rock the boat as Brad Liebe has much dirt on him as well. The council was presented with the gag order by Brad's attorneys and Betzer agreed. Obviously this was in the best interest of Betzer and Liebe. Keep in mind that these pastors have a great deal to lose. They are paid salraies that range from $200,000 - $250,000 per year not to mention the benefits and retirement packages. Frankly it's very similar to our government politicians. Again, I currently work here at FAOG and have access to this information, meetings, files, reports, etc.

    I can't speak to what Brad is or is not doing at his new church but I can speak to the "over the top" life style he was leading here. Expensive cars, extensive remodeling of his fort myers home and his wisconsin home, custom made clothing, lavish gifts and trips, expensive meals and the finest restaurants. The list goes on and on. It would not come as shock to me to find out that he is doing the same in WI. Old habits are hard to break. I hope and truly pray he has learned a valuable lesson from his time spent in FM.

    If I attended the church in WI, and were a member, I would demand to see the financial statements (Including Salaries). If that request is not allowed I would hope you have the common sense to move on and find a church that is transparent in its financial expenses and has a mentality of growing Gods kingdom not growing salaries, buildings and programs.

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  146. To answer the question about other people/pastors being involved, the answer is no. Brad acted alone, with the help of his secretary Michelle Delesandro. It is our understanding that all the pastors listed in a previous post were let go due to the churches financial issues. Between the housing meltdown in SWFL and Brad stealing all that money via credit card fraud, there was little left to go around. The congregation was giving a lot less money due to untrust and simply financial hardship.

    It should be clear that Liebe was in total control of running that church. He left little room for anyone else to be involved. Even the senior pastor didn't have any knowledge of Brad's financial dealings. Brad Liebe acted alone in this crime.

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  147. If the church is the people, then why are the people allowing these awful people to lead them? If you choose to stay in these corrupt environments then you are supporting these vial men. If you stay out of your own selfish reasons (ie: friends, convenience, special treatment by leadersip) then you are enabling a false teacher to be in charge of your spiritual growth (or lack there of)! It's maddening! Wake up people! Seek the truth - DEMAND THE TRUTH - for the sake of saving your church and all the GOOD it has done!!! Wash yourselves free of the Liebe family, and apparently the Betzer family too!!! There are plenty of people within the church walls that are doing good, how about we let them get some credit and take the spotlight away from these idols running the show!?! Don't be enslaved by lies!

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  148. I would like to answer the question as to why the church counsel members signed that gag order: STRONG PRESSURE and STRONG PERSUASION from Sr. Pastor Dan Betzer. He just wanted this whole thing to go away and did not want to attract media attention to his church and/or ruin his "legacy". Also, Liebe threatened that if Betzer involved the law he would expose "some things" about the Sr. pastor if he tried to prosecute. I have no idea if Liebe were bluffing or not, but I do know this threat was reported to the church counsel in a private meeting. I would also dare say that those church counsel members who have come to their senses deeply deeply regret signing that gag order.

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  149. People of Pathways you must demand full disclosure. Your Pastor and Board are not functioning biblically. To be honest the church was not founded under the prevoious pastor biblically. Rise up and take control before more people and families are hurt, more money is spent on a life style that will never be satisfied. God uses people in His plan and will for our lives. Be that person (s). Create a standard for pastors that embodies faith, love, meekness, passion, character, integrity, transparency and humility. Demand better!!!!

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  150. What happened to integrity christian centerDecember 24, 2011 at 12:56 AM

    I am the Facebook site Admin. I want to thank all of the people who have stepped up on this site . If you have followed the appleton posts you would have seen the attack that I was put through about a week ago. What you did not see was the emails I received from various Brad supporters . I chose to let God do his work and stepped back. After reading the new posts on craigslist and this site I have a renewed sense of hope that justice will be served in this situation. I also was shown something today that I would like to share. As I was finishing my Christmas shopping today I noticed Brad in some of the same upscale stores in the mall that I was in. As usual he was charming and nice to the shop clerks. For the first time I noticed that like an actor in a play he is playing a role. None of this is truely real to him. I believe that like most Sociopaths he has no remorse. He does not care for the people he has hurt. He is feeding his narcissistic tendencies. I am very concerned about him learning who any of us are. I believe that he is capable of anything and is beyond angry at these posts. He will slip up and expose himself if more pressure is put on the situation. It is also important to remember that this man when confronted by what he did threatened to expose Pastor Betzer for something that he never quite said . I personally am a adult survivor of a childhood sexual assault. I have had a great deal of help coping with this and it does not define me as a person. I witnessed Brad's daughter get up and talk about being the victim of a very upsetting experience with a man that was described as being "like a father to Brad and A Grandparent to this young woman".Brad told us that they chose not to press charges. this apparently happened right before they had to leave Fl. I do not know if what they claim is true. I do know that to deny justice to a victim of such a thing for any reason can cause horrible trama for the victim. I also know that to instruct a child to lie about such a thing as this in front of anyone. to teach your child to break one of the comandments set by God . Is wrong. It is also a violent act. If you are a member of Pathways and you are on the fence and saying I am like the swiss,neutral. Stop insulting the Swiss people. My grandmother used to say "If you do not stand for something, you will have nothing to stand on.". If you do not know what to believe ,seek the truth. Then make a stand.
    remember : Evil triumphs when good men do nothing. Happy Birthday Jesus :))

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  151. Could you please let us know the date the story was in the Post Crescent? I missed it. Or would you be able to post it here? Thanks lots!

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  152. If you are implying that Pastor Betzer was the one who assaulted Karrissa that is completely false. Even though Liebe's didn't press charges, the assaulter did serve time in a federal prison because he was prosecuted by the authorities.

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  153. What happened to Integrity Christian CenterDecember 24, 2011 at 4:56 PM

    I am not implying that Pastor Betzer was the one who assaulted Karrissa. I am stating that based on the implicatins made by Karrissa and her father,Brad. It was an attempt to lead us to believe that it was Pastor Betzer and that it was why they left Fl. The timing and what Brad said about having something on Pastor Betzer could take you down that train of thought. Also Brad has told members of his congregation that he was framed by the head pastor, and innocent of taking the money. I do not believe that Pastor Betzer assaulted Karrissa .

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    1. Brad Liebe is the biggest liar ever! It was an independent audit. His daughters had iphones when they were still $600 and designer bags. He had a boat he had alot of expensive things that made it obvious we needed to DO an audit. He is such a liar and a crook it amazes me! Does he think no one down here in fort myers is going to get wind of what he's saying?

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  154. what happened to integrity christian centerDecember 24, 2011 at 10:04 PM

    No, I am not implying that Pastor Betzer was the person who assaulted Karrissa.

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  155. Pastor Betzer had no reason to frame Brad. He was looking forward to finally retiring and getting out of there to move to AR. Betzer was even willing to stay around that next yr. to help with the transition. Liebe's criminal behavior completely put the ax to Betzer's retirement. If Betzer was going to frame him, then he wouldn't have spent a whole yr. promoting him as his successor. The man who molested Liebe's daughter (NOT Betzer) was sent to prison because he also molested his own grandchildren. This incident indeed happened a few yrs. before Liebe was outed as a thief.

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  156. What happened with Liebe's daughter had nothing to do with Betzer. Yes Betzer had plans to retire and yes Brad's situation moved Betzer to stay on board. None of this has anything to do with the issue at hand. The questions are:
    1. Did the Pathways Church Board knowingly hire Brad and his baggage?
    2. Did the Pathways Board knowing keep some or all of this information from the church body?
    3. Is Brad once again raising money for lavish salaries, trips, renovations, gifts, etc?
    4. Is Brad once again using church money for his personal gain?
    5. Does Brad have one thing in mind; to build a mega church with his name behind it?
    6. Does the church body have the right to question these new facts or are they being squashed as they do in Fort Myers?
    7. Should any one pastor or church board have this much power over an entire church?
    8. Is the amount of money Brad is paying back to FAOG the actual amount in question?

    I have many of these answers but am curious to know how many of you know these answers.

    Brad should step down graciously and move on with his life outside of full time ministry. The church does not need another "mega church builder". It needs leadership that has humility. It is time for the people of Pathways to ask the hard questions and search your own hearts on what to do next.

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  157. If Brad Liebe is implying these things and is having his daughter imply them... That makes him even worse than I thought!! He is really a horrible man. Pathways you need to eliminate him, and anyone that supports him, from your leadership. He's sick and needs serious help. I would be fearful of him. There is no limit to his lying. You truly can't trust a word he says. Betzer didn't harm Karrissa ever. That is an out right lie and has nothing to do with why he and his family were forced to leave Fort Myers. Brad stole nearly a million dollars over 15 years and hasn't stopped lying to protect himself since he started! This is serious and the fact that he denies it is much more serious. Really, really scary... He shouldn't be a pastor, he should be in jail.

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  158. Then what can we do to get Brad to step down if all of these accusations are true? I want to belong to a church where I can become closer to God, not where the Pastor THINKS he is God.

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  159. The fact is we have no proof that Brad is pulling the same crap that he did in Fort Myers here at Pathways. However, the bigger question is, why do the people of Pathways not know about Brad's past? Why hasn't he been honest with them? If you feel that Brad is hiding something or, once again, fleecing the church, then you have some options...

    1. First of all, you need to ask for a copy of the church's constitution and see what course of action you may take as a member. Most church constitutions allow for members to attend church board meetings. As a member you should bring your concerns to Brad and the board. Some questions you may consider asking the church board are:

    A. Why is the senior pastor position appointed and not elected by the church body? It is common practice in most evangelical churches that an incoming senior pastor is voted on by the church membership.

    B. Demand to see the church financial records (income and expense), including salaries and benefits for all employees and missionaries.

    C. Is there a finance committee at Pathways? Who is the chairman of the financial committee? If the answer is the senior pastor, ask why?

    D. Is there a missions committee at Pathways? Who is the chairman of the missions committee? Who's decisions was it to bring on Brad's family members? Nepotism can run ramped in churches!

    E. Does the church have a building committee or capital acquisitions committee to oversee capital improvements? Who is the head of that?

    F. Ask your senior pastor about his credentials? Does he even have a pastoral degree? Why did he forfeit his credentials with the Assemblies of God?

    G. As a church member, I would ask to see the contract that Brad has with First Assembly in Fort Myers regarding reimbursement of his embezzlement. And who is paying that "loan?"


    2. If no provisions in the constitution allow for action to remedy the situation, you would then be forced to either find a new church or start a grassroots effort to remove Brad from pastoral leadership. All of this is assuming that Brad was approached in private first, as to follow biblical precedent.

    3. If the above actions prove unsuccessful, then encourage third-party media investigations. There has to be pressure put on men like Brad, as there should be consequences to his actions.

    To address the suggestion of Brad leaving pastoral leadership to be on the missions field, I find that to be just as absurd! That is like sending the pedophile catholic priest to different parish after being caught. Keep in mind that questions were raised regarding Brad's financial integrity while on the mission field in Copenhagen.

    Nobody wants Brad's family to suffer, but Brad needs to step out of professional ministry and be a lay person in a local church. The money, power and greed in the church world are too much for him. In the private sector Brad would be forced to live modestly and honestly. He would be in jail if he would have acted this way in the corporate world.

    This is a touchy situation. No one person can take this on alone. This will take members banding together to get to the bottom of all these accusations. You need to be aware that people will take sides. The end result could be anything from a church split, to Brad leaving, to only you leaving. But to do nothing and not question your leadership only hurts the church body as a whole and Christians everywhere could be affected by Brad Liebe's shady practices. So biblically count the cost before you act.

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  160. Neither Brad or Karissa EVER gave any indication that the abuse was why they left Florida. Brad told us at a church meeting that it was a money issue. I think the Facebook Admin is just trying to get more than the 11 'likes' the page has so she/he is trying to sensationalize things.

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  161. Just like Obama and his birth certificate, the more this is talked about the sooner a resolution will be found.

    I urge each and every one of you seeking truth, or possessing the truth, to keep at it.

    Keep talking about it here, on Facebook and on Craigslist R&R.

    Otherwise, we are all just wasting our time.

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  162. Pathways, by doing nothing you are only postponing the inevitable. If you allow Brad Liebe to be your leader you are setting yourself up for a bigger mess down the road... Maybe you don't care and maybe you do? It is up to you. Personally I can't believe you want a false teacher in your pulpit... nor do you want your church to be labeled as a joke, nor do you want your tithe going to lavish personal trips and expenses. It is your church people of Pathways! Take the reins and let God's will be done.

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  163. Brad did not leave Fort Myers because of the abuse that his daughter endured. He left because he used Church funds for his lavish life style, homes, vacations and gifts. Keep in mind that First Assembly looked back only two years for his criminal behavior. Many people believe Brad's behavior stretches back to when he was a youth pastor and while he was on the mission's field. Brad may have learned his lesson but then again it looks like he is following the same path as he did in Fort Myers. Two homes, 3-4 cars, boat, expensive vacations not to mention a huge weekly church budget much of which is driven by buildings, salaries and renovations. When there is smoke there is usually fire. I suggest you call the fire department before all at Pathways get burned.

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  164. If you are currently attending pathways church, you have the right to straight answers without the spin that Brad can give. Call the church, request appointments as groups not individuals. Brad will eat up individuals. Strenghth in numbers.

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  165. I would like to comment on a Dec 24th post. Betzer did not frame Brad but he (Betzer)is just as dirty. Betzer has the church board wrapped around his little finger. Betzer has much to lose if he did not "make a deal with Brad" i.e. agree to a substancially smaller amount that was stolen and not turning it over to the local authorities. Don't fool yourself, Brad is a thief but he had a great teacher.

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  166. We must recognize that leadership in the church cannot be regarded lightly. The foremost requirement of a church leader is that he be above reproach (1 Timothy 3:2, 10; Titus 1:7). That is a difficult prerequisite, and not everyone can meet it.

    There are some sins that irreparably shatter a man's reputation and disqualify him from a ministry of leadership forever. Even Paul, man of God that he was, said he feared such a possibility. In 1 Corinthians 9:27 he says, "I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."

    Where did we get the idea that a year's leave of absence and some counseling can restore integrity to someone who has squandered his reputation and destroyed people's trust? Certainly not from the Bible. Trust forfeited is not so easily regained. Once purity is sacrificed, the ability to lead by example is lost forever.

    What about forgiveness? Shouldn't we be eager to restore our fallen brethren? To fellowship, yes. But not to leadership. It is not an act of love to return a disqualified man to public ministry; it is an act of disobedience.

    By all means we should be forgiving. But we cannot erase the consequences of sin. I am not advocating that we "shoot our wounded." I'm simply saying that we shouldn't rush them back to the front lines, and we should not put them in charge of other soldiers. The church should do everything possible to minister to those who have sinned and repented. But that does not include restoring the mantle of leadership to a man who has disqualified himself and forfeited the right to lead. Doing so is unbiblical and lowers the standard God has set.

    What should you do in the current crisis? Pray for your church's leaders. Keep them accountable. Encourage them. Let them know you are following their godly example. Understand that they are not perfect, but continue nonetheless to call them to the highest level of godliness and purity. The church must have leaders who are genuinely above reproach. Anything less is an abomination.

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  167. I am a member at Pathway's Church and I am not perfect and I don't feel that I have the right to judge anybody for past mistakes. God will judge when it is time - and I will leave it up to God. I belong to Pathway's for friendship, worship and Bible studies. All the Pastors at Pathway's are wonderful and I am proud to call Pathway's my church home.

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  168. Are you kidding me? Which part of the seriousness of this situation don't you get? You obviously don't know very much about the Word of God which very specifically tells one how to handle situations just like this one. Must be that your pastor isn't actually teaching you much of anything from the Bible! You need to do some serious Bible study on your own. It's all in there.

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  169. We must recognize that leadership in the church cannot be regarded lightly. The foremost requirement of a church leader is that he be above reproach (1 Timothy 3:2, 10; Titus 1:7). That is a difficult prerequisite, and not everyone can meet it.



    There are some sins that irreparably shatter a man's reputation and disqualify him from a ministry of leadership forever. Even Paul, man of God that he was, said he feared such a possibility. In 1 Corinthians 9:27 he says, "I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."



    Where did we get the idea that a year's leave of absence and some counseling can restore integrity to someone who has squandered his reputation and destroyed people's trust? Certainly not from the Bible. Trust forfeited is not so easily regained. Once purity is sacrificed, the ability to lead by example is lost forever.



    What about forgiveness? Shouldn't we be eager to restore our fallen brethren? To fellowship, yes. But not to leadership. It is not an act of love to return a disqualified man to public ministry; it is an act of disobedience.



    By all means we should be forgiving. But we cannot erase the consequences of sin. I am not advocating that we "shoot our wounded." I'm simply saying that we shouldn't rush them back to the front lines, and we should not put them in charge of other soldiers. The church should do everything possible to minister to those who have sinned and repented. But that does not include restoring the mantle of leadership to a man who has disqualified himself and forfeited the right to lead. Doing so is unbiblical and lowers the standard God has set.

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  170. I don't know who keeps copying this previous post and posting it again but it's getting kind of old.

    Take a look at 1 Corinthians 5:9-13. This isn't just a pastoral issue. It's a moral issue that God deals with very specifically in the church. Frankly, I'm so tired of Christians who think that their personal forgiveness is the all and get out of every issue. The church is to judge the church - that's the bottom line here and those who don't want to embrace it should not be expecting some big reward from God when you turn a blind eye and pat yourself on the back in the name of "love" and "forgiveness". The whole counsel of God is the goal of God in making us a holy people. This passage deals with immoral behavior in the church and it defines immorality as sexual in nature, drunkeness, and being a swindler as well, among other things. It even makes a distinction between the unbeliever and the believer. God actually says here to judge the believer, NOT the unbeliever - the "so-called" brother is to be removed from the church because he sullies it's name and causes discord among God's people. If Brad has been a swindler, he should have been expelled from EVERY church body immediately. Your love and forgiveness will not restore Brad to a right relationship with God - only repentance can do that and it's not something you can help him with. It isn't your place to forgive him - he didn't steal from you. If he's looking for forgiveness he should go back to Florida and face those he swindled and ask them for it.

    Brad continues to lie about this situation. He continues to hold on to multiple real estate properties versus selling at least one of them and returning as much money as possible to the people he stole it from. He continues to deny the people of Pathways a straight answer in a public forum and believe me he's been asked to do so on multiple occasions by multiple individuals.

    Please people, open your bibles for your own sakes. God is not waiting to reward you for this childish and immature attitude of blind devotion to those that don't deserve it. It isn't biblical and it's destroying the church in this country. Since when does God reward His church for ignoring His commands? You are not practicing forgiveness, you're practicing disobedience and it will eventually catch up to you and Pathways.

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  171. Now THAT is a good word! Finally....someone with some Biblical knowledge and sense!

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  172. all I know is that the board members at Pathway's keep increasing the amount that should be tithed. They want 31,000 per week but have been averaging around 27,000. so, I was wondering if there are actually churches out there that don't put so much focus on the tithing. I am all for giving back, but I tend to do that by giving to the homeless shelters, Harbor House, Salvation Army. I am tired of seeing my money go to already rich people.

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    1. The W.E.L.S. churches preach directly from the Bible and don't focus on tithing. They aren't fancy...no coffee bars, video game machines, or Praise & Worship bands to entertain, but you'll get the true Word of God in law and gospel.

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  173. Well said. I actually read your post to mean the exact OPPOSITE of what you've said here. It sounded like you didn't think $27,000 was enough and were looking for a group of more dedicated "tithers".

    I couldn't agree more. We also need to stop building these enormous churches and start giving the money to our communities to reach out in the name of Christ. Every church I've ever been in puts its' emphasis on its' building and its' Sunday programs - all of which benefit people who are primarily already saved. Very few churches do on-going outreach and assistance to the poor anymore. In Jesus' day Christian's were defined by how they loved others. In our day, Christians are defined by how much they spend on themselves. It's just sickening.

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  174. People of Pathways - how does it feel to know your tithe is going to pay a six digit salary and over the top expenses. If we are to give our 10% to the storehouse then the storehouse has an obligation to use it according to His will and plan. The storehouse needs to be accountable and as long as Brad is the Senior Pastor you will never truly see accountability.

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    1. Brad had an affair with his sister in law ... Kelly Weis Dudley... it is true.

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  175. Has Brad put a gag order out? Or has everyone become seditary in their desire to see justice served? Pathways are you choosing to be a part of the problem, rather than find a solution? I still haven't seen any articles posted about Brad in the Appleton Post Crescent online... Is he seriously going to dodge another bullet? How/why does God continue to bless the corruption in His churches while the rest of the meek and mild world suffer the consequences? I just don't understand?

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  176. Apparently Brad won.

    He kept quiet with the hopes that this would all blow over and go away. It looks as if that's exactly what happened.

    A bunch of people made a little noise but it all seems to have fallen away.

    This makes me wonder - are the accusations really true? Or are there just a few angry people trying to enact some sort of revenge?

    I greatly dislike "mega-churches" because they would rather hoard their resources in favor of huge buildings, flashing lights and "celebrity" clergy. I was a long time member of Pathways before Brad came on board. I don't mind that a church grows but it's focus should not change. I see Pathways as a Willow Creek wanabe only with an actor at the pulpit and not a humble man of God.

    If I had some actual proof of Brads wrong doings I'd do all I could to have the situation rectified. But even after all that has been said, all I can find anonymous hearsay.

    If anyone truly has proof, please, put it on the table so this whole thing can be put to rest one way or another.

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  177. Brad has a new bio circulating, his only mention of Florida is their return to Florida where Brad began his work as a successful church consultant. Why would a person hide so much of their past?

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  178. What's going on with Brad? He no longer has a Facebook page? And why is there no more posts from anyone? Is he trying to get back on track with his life? Concerned and curious....

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  179. So, it looks like Liebe finally got to all of you. No conversation for weeks. Nothing to say or did he sick his lawyers on you?

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  180. Liebe's a fraud and everyone knows it. Anyone that goes to such great lengths to hide his past has much to be ashamed of. His days of recociliation will come when he stands before Jesus. Brad has an eternity of pure love to lose.

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  181. If everyone knows that, why in the world do they keep attending that church? Ugh! Their eyes are so blinded; so deceived! People are so easily deceived from lack of knowledge of the Word of God. You are right though. Judgement day is coming!

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  182. The comments section of this particular posting is full. Do not add any more comments here. They will not show up. Instead, go to the new post I just posted on Feb. 10, 2012 called Spiritual Wisdom is Good - Part 2.
    http://wisdomseekerprov4.blogspot.com/

    We can continue the "conversation" via comments there. Thank you.

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  183. I was in church that Sunday when Pastor Betzer made the announcement and let me tell you, Brad broke the Pastor's heart. Most everyone that I have spoken to that attended one of those services that weekend will tell you that Pastor Betzer did not hold back, he informed the church and he dealt with the situation in the best way he knew. I feel he was remarkeable in this very tragic situation. I have been going to First Assembly for a number of years now and God has blessed this church in countless ways and continues to do so. For those few that have left the church, perhaps you were too quick to judge. All I can say is that whle many churches in this country are seeing declining numbers, First Assembly of Fort Myers is having significant growth. I think God knows some things that the quick to judge might not. Thank you First Assembly of God Fort Myers and thank you Pastor Betzer for your leadership through God.

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  184. Betzer is as crooked at Liebe you just don't know about it.

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  185. The comments about the alleged affair are not getting published on this blog site because of lack of any credible evidence to my knowledge. Since it's my blog, I have that right to pick and choose what I allow to be posted. So......don't waste any more time writing about that particular subject. It won't get published. Start your own blog somewhere else instead if you wish. Then you can control what you publish or don't publish.

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  186. "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone" is all I can say. We are all human, tempted by all sorts of sin. Our enemy knows us well and knows that someone falling can lead to others becoming bitter with church or religion. Satan knows this and would like to see those in power fall the worse. In this case it is working. "There is none righteous, no not one." Even Paul said he does the things he should not and does not do the things he should. We have got to stop pointing fingers at people who are just that.....human and full of sin. Each one of us falls to various temptations or we wouldn't need Jesus - His sacrifice would have been for nothing. Who am I to judge Brad? I was there, I attended First Assembly of God in Fort Myers and I was hurt and disappointed, but I forgave as should the rest of us.

    How many times should we forgive? 7?.............you know the rest.

    Maybe we should all refresh ourselves with the 10 Commandments and the 7 deadly sins and ask how many do we commit on a daily basis.

    Doesn't the Bible warn about speaking ill about a man of God? Isn't all authority given by God? Who are we to guess how many times God will give Brad a chance.

    And to "Mr. Anonymous" Pastor Betzer is a wonderful man of God; how dare you! Shame on you for saying such a thing!

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  187. 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9 provide the qualifications of elder. When looking at these qualifications, one is immediately struck by the fact that they describe an individual of impeccable moral character, almost to the point of disqualifying most individuals. The Pastor serves as a moral example to the church. This is an individual who has a proven track record of good, moral living and gentle, yet firm, leadership in the family setting. The reasons are obvious: How can a man whose moral character is questionable exhort and rebuke others into holy living?
    Should a fallen Pastor be forgiven? Without a doubt. Should that Pastor be reinstated? Maybe, if he can prove himself. But when you consider the ramifications of stories such as this, and the damage it causes to the church, you have to ask the question, "Is this the best person Pathways could find to lead the church???"
    Brad did something to get himself kicked out of the AoG organization after spending most of his life in the AoG church. No matter what he did, this can not be ignored. The fact that Brad was so quickly brought in by Pathways after being kicked out of the AoG smacks of personal favors and cronyism: two things that do nothing but damage the credibility of the church.

    Let me ask you a question, how would you feel if you had children in a church's kids program that was lead by a convicted sex offender? Would you "forgive" this person and let them alone with your child?

    The office of Pastor is not an easy one to hold, nor is it for everyone, the bible makes that clear. No matter what Brad did to get kicked out of the AoG, it renders him unqualified to lead a congregation.

    Brad should most certainly be forgiven for his transgressions but - according to the bible - he should never lead a church again.

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  188. Laura, you may want to do a little more studying of your bible. The John 8:7 scripture you reference (He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.), according to the most respected commentaries, Verse 7. He that is without sin, meaning the same kind of sin, adultery, fornication, the verb is used in this sense by the best Greek writers.
    Even if you take that verse and ignore the original meaning, an apply it as you have, you have completely ignored what is said in 1 Timothy and Titus in regards to the qualifications of a pastor.
    If a wife is cheated on/abused by her husband, should she forgive him? Of course she should. Should she let him back into a position to do it again? Only a fool would say, "Yes".
    Forgiveness does not mean that you allow a person back into a place, or position, to sin again. In fact, we, as brothers and sisters in Christ, should be doing all that we can to remove the temptations that cause others to stumble.
    Forgive Brad, but never allow him back into the position that caused him to fall. Doing so accomplishes nothing but set Brad up to fall again. Is this really the way Christ expected us to manage the church?

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  189. You all (people from FAoG, FL & Pathways) need to call WBAY (920)438-3264 and WLUK (920_490-1407 and make it public or this situation will never be resolved.

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  190. Ok I used to be a member at first assembly in fort myers. And he did steal and they never told us the true amount. When I found out they made him sr. pastor at another church I was baffled! I thought surely they knew of his past. Clearly they didn't. And since his remorse was not sincere...I bet he's doing the same thing up there

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  191. I contacted this media outlet about Brad ... they are interested but need a little more to go on. If you have information, please contact them.

    FOX11News@wluk.com ;

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  192. I think the news media can find all the information they need by reading this blog. It's all here. The whole unbelievable truth. Faced by Jesus Brad could never deny any of it. He knows it, his entire family knows it and all if us who lived through it know it. Only the truth can set you free Brad.

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  193. Apparently Brad resigned today for cheating on his wife with his sister-in-law Kelly Dudley. :\

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  194. judgement is in GUILTY HE IS OUT AT PATHWAYS!
    UNBELIEVABLE! WONT BE THE END OF THINGS AT PATHWAYS CHURCH (COMING SOON)

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