Friday, February 10, 2012
Spiritual Wisdom is Good - Part 2
The comments section of the original blog posting, Spiritual Wisdom is Good, is full. No more room for additional comments. I had to delete some of them due to lack of space because the newest ones weren't showing up at all. This space is being provided to continue posting comments on the subject matter being discussed in the original posting. The link above will take you to the original posting. Don't leave any more comments there though. They will not show up. Instead, come back to this posting and leave your comments here. Thank you.
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The people in Florida have moved on. It is what it is. What good does it or would it do to confront him anyway? He just lies and manipulates. He got by with it down here. He doesn't work here anymore. Perhaps it is time for some answers???? Answers to what? We don't have any questions! They were already answered a long time ago when he stood up in the front on the church and admitted to what he had done. Greed is the answer. It's time for you people at Pathways to make him be accountable to YOU. It's YOUR church. Except it really isn't your church, is it? They do whatever they want to do around there, right? No one in the congregation really has any say about anything. Why do you stay there? Why do you continue to give your hard earned money there? So Liebe can go on some more so-called "missions" trip to where all his friends live? Take more vacations to Hawaii? If you can't force him out then you need to save yourselves from this horrible lying wolf. Move on. Find a real church out there somewhere. Surely there must be at least one in your area???? Maybe..... That's questionable nowadays though isn't it?
ReplyDeleteBrad has finally been held accountable but the total problem has not been addressed. The board has covered up for him and enabled him for years. They have yet to admit they made mistakes. JJ Eaton the "enforcer" is still running the show. He is every bit the smooth talker Brad is. Pathways you should demand answers. We need a church meeting so questions can be asked and the board is held accountable. Do we want these people selecting our new senior pastor?!. Church meeting, church meeting, church meeting!
DeleteWho are we kidding. From what I know and have heard, Brad Liebe will always "get away" with it. People typically do not like conflict especially in church. Brad knows this and will always come out on top. The only way that Brad will be held accountable (on this earth) is if people are willing to confront him and his family. Pathways is just another financial playground for Brad and his expensive life style. The church is his "cash cow" and the people are being milked. Bigger, Bigger, Bigger, More Money, More Money, More Money is what you will always get from this thief. Just sit back and watch Pathways. You will always be pushed financially under the grounds that you will be blessed. While I agree that blessings do come from financial stewardship and giving, i don't belive blessings come from mega church builders who have ego's the size of some professional athletes. Wake up folks. Its not just Pathways but far too many denominations and church's across our country. Be a giver, be passionate, be committed just not to Brad Liebe or his life style.
ReplyDeleteHA HA HA HA HA HA HA! He has never taken a thing in his lifetime? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
ReplyDeleteAre you naive' or just plain stupid? What part of this don't you get? At least 4,000 - 5,000 people were there to hear his public confession of this thievery. A man of God? We should listen to his every word? Are you kidding me? We shouldn't listen to anyone's "every" word. Only God is infallible and only His Word can be totally trusted. Why don't you go back to the very beginning and read ALL of the comments starting on the first page of this posting. I feel sorry for you if you are as gullible as you sound.
Brad Liebe has the utmost in integrity. Lies, lies, lies. He is part of a huge conspiracy to cover up the truth about the Assemblies of God and First Assembly. Brad has his two homes, nice cars, custom clothing, jewelry, boats, vacations, etc. because he is blessed. If we all would just follow Brad we too might be as blessed as he is. I know I would do anything for Brad Liebe. He is such a great roll model.
ReplyDeleteBrad is the perfect role model for, how to succeed in winning and screw over all your friends and colleagues in the process. He's nothing more than an insecure fraud that is so caught up in his lies that he has no knowledge of what is fact or fiction anymore. And I truly believe that he purposely talks in circles so that no one understands what he's trying to say, so out of pure courteously people just smile and nod and figure that he knows what he's talking about!!! But he's so jacked up on caffeine that he can't produce a coherent thought let alone a sentence or a sermon!! Honestly have you ever really, really tried to follow one of his sermons? He's all over the road or constantly repeating the same old grandfather stories with a different twist. He bores me and it is sad that we, as a congregation, accept this sinful behavior and rehashed rhetoric that he fills our heads with. It's nothing but pure laziness on everyone's part and completely disobedient and insulting to our Lord!!! Let's wake up Pathways and make a better plan for our future and the future of all those lost souls out there. Do we really want to invite anyone else into this mess of lies??? The untold harm that could be done... who are we kidding... that has ALREADY been done is heartbreaking! Painfully heartbreaking... And we just continue to fuel the fires of hell. What a waste of our time, energy and vision for OUR church!!! All we do week after week is give, give, give and he takes and takes, and vacations and vacations, and shops as if he's single-handedly saving the financial ruin of our country!! It's beyond frustrating that no one is willing to work together to be what this church was meant for! WE have to stop this insanity! No one will do it for us. This is Pathways' responsibility, as a pillar of integrity in this community, to stand up for the truth! The TRUTH will set you free!!!! Please, I beg of you my congregation, please let us work together and not against eachother. Why are we supporting the fraudulent behavior of our pastor??? It's maddening.
ReplyDeleteWhat is up with these AG Pastors or X AG Pastors? What has ever happened with the word Integrity? We can discuss Brad L, but there are many other's that seem to lack this integrity. We can discuss the AG Pastor in Oshkosh who seems to lack Pastoral Integrity. It is very frustrating.
ReplyDeleteAG Pastors are trained to be competitive with each other. Weekly attendance reports, weekly giving reports, etc. etc. This seems to fuel a "build it at any cost" mentality. They are driven by numbers, building of kingdoms (not the Kingdom), money, ego, bragging rights, etc. If you want to see this in full force, attend a state district council meeting or better yet a general council meeting. You will finds hundreds and sometimes thousands of pastors and there wives parading around in suits. The atmosphere is similar to an event like the Oscars or the Grammy's. Its a "who's who" of the AG. The men stand in the hallways between each session bragging about how many people attend there church and what there newest building project is.
ReplyDeleteI would say it is nearly impossibly to keep whatever integrity you have once you enter into the AG network. I am not saying that every pastor at every AG is this pathetic but I am saying that the general public would be shocked if they saw what takes place behind the close doors of the AG.
Brad Liebe is a prime example of young man who was raised in the AG. Brad shows all the characteristics of the typical AG Pastor (Even though he is no longer an AG Pastor). Brad has an ego as large as any pop star diva, he has spending habits like a millionaire, he pushes his congregation to give until they can't give anymore in the name of progressing the Kingdom and then brags about his accomplishments to his pastor friends, he is a master of twisting words like a politician. The AG was once a movement of men and women who had one common goal. They wanted nothing more than to see God move in miraculous way through prayer. They wanted the "Kingdom" to grow not a kingdom. The AG has a disease that affects all of us. Greed!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bigger buildings, more money, bigger salaries. I know all this as I have spent years in AG.
I guess people simply do not care! The issue that follow Pastor Liebe have been swept under the rug. Once again he comes out white as snow because the church will not take a stand. People of Pathways you will get what you deserve.
ReplyDeleteHis ego has a way to go before it matches Betzers. I attended FAM until very recently, and was there during what happened with Brad Liebe. Everything reported here is true, true, true, and then some. I was there when this went down. The afternoon that the auditors went into Betzer's office and told him all this, he went white. He called Brad into his office and asked him if it was true, and Brad began to cry like a girl and admitted it was. Betzer handled it from there. He told Brad to get Jana and the kids out of town, that night if possible. Betzer was almost more afraid than Brad was of what was going down, and he orchestrated and wrote the grand apology for Brad to recite. That weekend at all three services, Brad addressed the congregation beginning with the Psalm that goes, "Against you and you alone Lord, have I sinned." He came out unshaven, disheveled, looking like he had not slept or bathed in three days, and stated he had done everything Betzer had told the congregation had happened and he cried and asked for forgiveness. In what was meant to look like a grand gesture of sympathy and grace for the fallen soul, Pastor Betzer called ALL the pastors up to lay hands on a blubbering Brad and speak words of comfort TO HIM. Betzer was not concerned at how betrayed the congregation felt at all this. It was only a week earlier that the vote, which culminated a year of campaigning on Betzer's part for Brad to take over, occurred and everyone was rejoicing. Now, we were all being told that the man that supposedly God inspired Betzer to support and mentor all these years, was a lying thief. But Pastor Betzer made sure that there was security on site, and that Brad said his little piece and was escorted by ALL of our illustrious pastors to the safety of the back door so he could go unimpeded. After that, no one saw him again.
ReplyDeleteI am laughing at the post of March 22.....I attended Brad's former church for 12 years in Ft. Myers until recently. For Pastor Betzer's 75th birthday, all the pastors there thought it would be a great idea to throw him a HUGE birthday bash, and spend $1,000 for every year he was in ministry. For those who are mathematically challenged, it ran a tad over $50,000. His birthday was patterned after the Oscars.....they flew 100 of his closest friends and family from every corner of the US, and even had the president of the AOG there. They rented big Hollywood Studio spotlights, and sent a limousine for him and his guests, to deposit them on a red carpet from the car into the sanctuary where Pastor Dave Thomas was MC and instead of "Oscar" statues, "Betzer" statues were handed out to everyone who came forward to tell the congregation how lucky we were to have Dan Betzer as our pastor, or how they came to meet the illustrious Dan Betzer, or why they admired Dan Betzer.....it was all about Dan Betzer.....nothing about Jesus....you know Him, right? The one that they all portend to serve???? Afterwards, there was a big white tent set up in the back lot with crystal chandeliers no less, where a mediocre birthday cake from Publix was served to us "little people" while the rest of them went to Christofs for a pricey dinner. (Oh, and did I forget to mention, that Dan and his closest 100 buddies dined at Christof's for breakfast, and lunch the next day, had a round of golf, before flying them home from birthday weekend.) You know, there are ALOT of pastors who live to be 75 years and put 50 years in the ministry, but....hello.....most of them have a celebration with their flock with birthday cake and punch in the church hall. This was beyond ridiculous. I say this only to conclude, anything Liebe is doing, he picked up from his mentor by osmosis. Our pastors at FAM are nothing less than a pack of conceited, self absorbed, individuals who cannot make it in the real world and have found a place to hide in this ministry. I agree, there is a cancer in the AOG. We have gone to another church as we just cannot abide by this anymore.
ReplyDeleteI attended AOG in Ft. Myers, FL for 12 years where Brad and was there when it was announced what had happened. For those of you who do not want to believe Brad did this, there are none so blind as those who will not see.....he DID do everything mentioned here, and
ReplyDeletemore, completely unrepentant. I was there at the 2nd service when Pastor Betzer told the congregation what had gone down. But what I felt was not right, was that every means of sheltering Brad and his family was made, to the detriment of the congregation. After Brad stood before us, never looking at us, just head down crying and reciting the Psalm, "I have sinned and sinned against you alone, Lord" looking disheveled and unkempt, then he apologized, THEN Pastor Betzer asked ALL the illustrious pastors of First Assembly to come forward and lay hands on Brad, support him and speak words of comfort to him. Then he was spirited out the back door so that no one could say anything to him. ????? What about the congregation he betrayed? He not only stole from us (money that we were told was going for missions, Masters Commission, charity, etc, not so Brad and Jana could drive his and her Lexus, or they could all wear the newest designer fashions, or the house he built in Wisconsin. Pastor Betzer did have a meeting later where it was disclosed how much Brad took....close to $750,000....but he also invited President Wood, from the AOG home offices in Springfield, to field the tough questions. While the church secretary, bookkeeper, treasurer and lawyer were at this meeting, no one was permitted to ask them how all the checks and balances failed.
So to some extent, no questions of substance were really answered. All
Pastor Wood did was ask, "who among you are without sin." What Brad did to us was treacherous, truly worthy of Judas, although Brad could have taught him a few things about treachery. There is no way his family didn't know all this. Pastor Betzer made sure to get them all out of dodge before the announcement was made, he didn't want the Liebe's "traumatized" by what had happened.....but he didn't mind the flock being traumatized. Our church is not the same, our pastors are some of the cheerless, nasty, conceited, unfriendly and untrusting people now, because of what Brad did, there is a line called "professional distancing" that has been drawn between the pastors and the congregation. I pray you can remove Brad and his family from your church before he wreaks the havoc on you that he did on us. The whole Liebe family is bad news. Brad was supposed to have been defrocked, he was supposed to go to reconciliation ministry to re-earn his credentials, but we were told by Pastor Wood Brad would never again pastor a church. He was also supposed to pay us back, but he won't. We are all very angry and distressed that he is being allowed to do this all over again. Our prayers are with you all.
The thing that is most heart-breaking about Brad is his blatant lack of remorse. Knowing his upbringing, it is almost understandable how one could get caught up in the money over-taking his life. Let's face it, we all make mistakes and this was the perfect crime. He was trusted, respected and played a good game. After nearly 13 years of getting away with his thievery, each transaction getting bigger than the last, he pretty much figured he would never be found out. He had is made and surrounded himself with people who would never question him. However, when people got to close and started to ask questions, he simple turned his back on them and made up a nasty rumor that that person should not be trusted. He was our fearless, fun-loving leader... Why would we question him?
ReplyDeleteThe point is, everyone sins. We all make mistakes and most of us learn from them and move on to be better people. This is not true for Pastor Liebe. He will not admit he was wrong. He has wrongfully blamed other people for his demise. He refuses to take responsibility for his actions and has out-out-out denied that any of he criminal behavior took place. That is what is MOST troubling about all of this! If he would have just admitted his crime/sin/lies, and made good on his reimbursement to the church it would have been so noble of him! We all would be cheering him on and thanking our Lord for saving our brother in Christ! But he can't/won't admit to his actions, he won't apologize for his actions or to anyone who he hurt in the process, he won't acknowledge any wrong doing and has gone so far as to blackmail people in order to keep them quiet! It's SICK! It is blatantly and venomously pre-meditated, well thought out criminal behavior. He is clearly not in his right mind, all the while fooling everyone around him with his charm and charisma.
This IS Brad Liebe friends. This is YOUR pastor. This man has been like this his whole life. This type of delusional behavior is not easily remedied. He is not likely to change and it is only a matter of time and opportunity before he strikes again.
Again, I would be the first person in line to forgive him and put it all behind me if he would only genuinely admit to all of Pathways, admit to all for Fort Myers AG and admit to all of his friends and colleagues, not to mention his family, that he was WRONG! He lied, he stole, he broke hearts and destroyed lives! Yes, it's a lot to bare, but be a man and take responsibility for your behavior and stop blaming everyone else!! This has gone long enough... don't you think Brad?
The post on May 25th is right on however I would not hold your breath regarding Brad's admission of guilt. Brad has lied to himself and others for so long that he believes his own lies. This is a deep family trait that he struggles with. To admit that he and he alone is responsible for his actions would be a sign of weakness. If he shows weakness he then will have less control over the people he is "pastoring". Brad's issues are deep and from what I know started well before First AG in Fort Myers. It is sad but he will never change. In order for him to change he would actually have to have a relationship with Christ and the Holy Spirit. This is a man who is capable of suppressing his guilt and believing the lies he tells himself. You will find it hard pressed to find anyone who will confirm this because the network between pastors and his father’s relationship with the AG is so tight that jobs / ministry positions would be in jeopardy. It's a vicious circle like a dog chasing his tail. I'm saddened over this situation. The state of the Church and its leaders are in disarray. I admit that I do not have all the answers but it would be a step in the right direction if Brad Liebe stepped down from ministry permanently. I doubt that would ever happen as his salary and benefits are far too good. I guess it all comes down to money once again.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, don't give up on God because of these false pastors who are leading their sheep astray and not setting a Godly example. God is still real and in control of it all. Instead, spend your time studying His Word for yourself. What's happening in the so-called church today has all been taught about by Jesus Himself in His Word. It's just another sign of the times. We're in the last days - whether that is any day now or a hundred years away. How many times did Jesus tell us about all of the false shepherds who would come in during the last days to lead the sheep astray? Study and pray for spiritual discernment so you will not be fooled yourself. This is no time to be giving up on God. I totally understand your frustration and maybe even disgust with the modern day churches. Just remember that the church building and the pastors are not the real church. The believers, the Remnant, is the true church. The people of God are the Church, not the buildings where they hold meetings. Do some research and some reading about this subject. It's all out there. Most of all, read the Word very closely and carefully. It's all in the Word too.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, there are some Pastors like Liebe and Betzer who are skilled at tearing apart the flock. That is what is going on now. If anyone in the flock dare speak up, they are told that Pastor is "God's man" and God will deal with him, but we the flock are to do as directed by the pastor. This is not scriptural, the flock does not exist to serve the pastor, it is the other way around. If people do not stand up and speak up, no matter how uncomfortable or loathsome the idea is, they are just as guilty as the perpetrators. Liebe and Betzer are quite skilled at the forked tongue double talk, very adept at getting someone to doubt themselves and their standing with the Lord. God forgive them for that. Things in Ft. Myers may be coming to a head. The church is in trouble there, big time. They are running about $30,000 a week in the red and the calls are coming fast and furious for anyone with money to give "sacrificially"......or in other words, everyone do without, starve your kids if need be, so that the church leadership is not inconvenienced. Betzer refuses to acknowledge that half the membership is unemployed and in various stages of foreclosure. Our area has been hit very hard. But still comes that clarion call for $$$$$...the church is unwilling to let go of the apartments acquired by Brad for MC. All the pastors have their heart set on attending some shin dig in Springfield and going first class. Meanwhile, the food pantry it operates is so intent on "missions giving" it will not supply as much as a grain of rice to one of its own who needs it. It is a very sad state of affairs, and we are praying for God to reveal what is not readily seen by the masses, that these men are going to be unmasked, and then, the corruption removed and a real shepherd sent to us.
ReplyDeleteBrad Liebe is credentialed through "Grace International" and no longer through the Assemblies of God. Their first response is going to be to believe Brad in the face of overwhelming evidence, but maybe you can get through to one of their board of directors.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.grace-international.tv/staff/board_of_directors/
Be warned: Brad has his lawyers and JJ Eaton working around the clock trying to get him out of the many screw ups that a very troubled person seems to find themselves in.
Are you telling me that Steve Tripp is employed by the the AG and works for the District Office? Why would he be allowed to serve on the board of a nonag church while holding a position with the assemblies of god? That is crazy! Sounds like the troups have rallied around Brad.
ReplyDeleteYes, he is an ordained A/G minister and works as the District Youth Director under Larry Liebe. Interesting that he would serve on the board of someone who had their credentials pulled.
DeleteVery interesting. No doubt, the district Assemblies of God, under the leadership of Larry Liebe, has to discipline ministers for only a fraction of what Brad continues to get away with.
DeleteHonestly, it is disheartening. It makes me never want to walk into a church again.
Larry Liebe & Brad Liebe need to both resign and Brad needs to come clean about his theft and improper relationships.
2 Things:
Delete1) Larry Liebe
2) The system in the church world rewards manipulators like Brad. Church people have an uncanny ability to put their head in the sand and deny the facts in front of them.
Pathways Church - your pastor took 700k. This happened. Also, there are some improper relationships that have been reported to the proper authorities that are being denied.
AG ministers are allowed to pastor and be on staff at non AG churches. It is common. The terminology of "allowed" is very interesting. Would you prefer more control over AG ministers in general, or just elected district officials?
DeleteWhat's good 'ol pastor Liebe up to now? Are you implying that Brad wasn't truthful with Grace International in order to get new credentials?
ReplyDeleteWhy is JJ Eaton in Brad's back pocket? What's in it for him?
I just don't understand why people are so mesmerized by Brad? Why would you choose to follow and support a lier, thief, fraud, cheater and snake? Liebe has no integrity and anyone who follows him deserves zero respect.
Is Brad in hot water again? Who is JJ Eaton? Is he an attorney? I would assume Grace International did some sort of background check however in this day and age anyone can get a ministerial license.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone considered that Pathways has gotten the "pastor" that they deserve? After all the posts notifying them of what happened in Fl., they simply DO NOT care. I remember reading heart felt posts pleading with the people to get him out of their church,because he's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Folks,this is who they want to lead them. Let the dead bury their dead. The Lord Jesus' plan is marching on and we need to keep our eyes on Him, not Brad, not Pathways. How many warnings can you give a church? 2,000 people heard his confession of embezzling from the pulpit. These people are not interested in the truth because the stroking of their egos by a master manipulator feels too good.
ReplyDeleteWhat does it say about the church that a man can steal money from his congregation, have an improper relationship with his sister in law .... and not only continue in ministry, but be very successful and thrive?
DeleteImagine the horrible duplicity in this man! Yet he is leading a congregation.
It says more about the church than it does Brad.
Pathways selected Brad and they will have to live with the good or bad that comes from his past and future leadership. The one thing I know for sure is that old habits die hard and Brad has a taste for the finer things in life. He will eventually allow the greed and materialism to get the best of him. I do feel badly for Brad as he does not realize how sick he is. Brad doesn't know where the truth begins and the lying ends. Pray that he is removed from his position either voluntarily or forcefully. This may be the only way he will face his sin.
ReplyDeleteCult 101: Really screwed up leader masking his manipulation behind religious mumbo jumbo. Truth begins to come out about said leader. Cult leader will deny and claim persecution because god is doing great things in the cult and Satan wants to stop it. The sheep believe the leader .... sometimes at the cost of their very lives.
ReplyDeleteHistory will always repeat itself.
Here is how church works:
ReplyDelete1) If it is growing in attendance and money, it is considered healthy and spiritual. Sad but true. If a pastor has attendance and money, it is like a winning coach ..... he is untouchable.
Here is the secret: the real way that people vote in church is not at a business meeting ... it is with their pocketbook and feet.
A guy like Brad is not in the ministry because he is called ... he is in it because it is all he knows. What he wants is power and money ... and ministry is all he knows & it is easy to achieve power and money if you are manipulative.
The fastest way to vote against that is with your feet and money going out the door of Pathways church.
Regarding the Nov 13 Cult post. Frankly you could say that about the church in America as a whole. We see leaders in the church everyday who mirror what Brad has done. Again, I think we need to be very careful about the affair allegations. Not sure where this came from or who thinks they have evidence of this.
ReplyDeleteCertainly the "church" today does not work as it was intended. We have too many professional pastors who entered the ministry because of either family tradition (Brad Liebe)or the pursuit of power. Either way we have dysfunction from the very top.
The world that these pastors live in is very small and controlled. Week after week their egos are stroked by the sheep. They are told how wonderful they are. There comes a point when they start believing the hype. When this takes place they lose sight of right and wrong, good and evil, leadership and power. Brad Liebe is simply a small sample of the larger problem we see in the church today. God help us!!!!!
http://safeguardyoursoul.com/true-and-false-assemblies/
ReplyDeleteAbove is a good article on "churchianity."
I was directed to this blog over the weekend and read a mojority of it. If half of what I have read is true about Brad Liebe then he should not be in a place of spiritual authority. The sad part is that nothing will ever be done about it. I don't know what comments are fact and what are speculation but if a person has this much dirty laundry then it needs to be investigated. Too bad the church is as corrupt as our government.
ReplyDeleteBrad ripped of 700k - He and his dad lied to Pastor Randerson while his health was bad and he was vulnerable. Brad and his family, brother and sister in law included, continue to help manipulate and lie so that Brad can fleece thousands from Pathways church.
ReplyDeleteBrad is a complete clinical narcissist. He doesn't care about the people he steals money from or that he lives better than everyone else...in his mind he deserves it because he's better than everyone else. I can't believe the disgruntled people of Pathways and First Assembly of God, Ft. Meyers haven't gone to the local media like WBAY and WLUK and exposed him and his embezzlement and king-like spending. What is it going to take for you sheep to take action? He is following in his father's shoes (and I don't mean God). Take a look at his new "ranch" outside Waupaca, a quarter mile from his lake home on Spencer Lake. They truly believe they are entitled to live better, but if you suckers don't do anything about it, then you deserve what you get.
ReplyDeleteWhat does it matter?
ReplyDeleteYes Brad ripped off 700k in Florida and continues to deceive. Yes he has had a number of improper relationships, including one with his sister in law. Yes, his dad helped him deceive Pastor Randerson so he could get his job. Yes, all of this has been reported to his board and ministry officials. Yes, this is all corrupt and as far away from the spirit and ministry of Jesus as you can possibly be. Yes, yes, yes, it is all true ...
But what does it matter? People want to believe the best about their religious mascot ... just let them believe. They sleep better at night.
I ask how he, his dad, his board, his sister in law even have much of a soul left ... but that is between them and God. Let them cover up. Let them manipulate God's people .... God will deal with it in his time.
Brad is missing from church during the Easter season? What Pastor is not there during this season? Could it be that the money thing or the Sister in Law thing has finally caught up to him?
ReplyDeleteInterest week at Pathway. Brad is missing from EASTER service, big meeting off campus on Tuesday, Worship Pastor Lance's house has been for sale for a couple of weeks,Chris Kliner is meeting today one on one with the children s ministry staff to hear first hand about the changes to be announced and Lance is meeting with Lana Bishop to talk about something today. My thoughts at bare minimum Lance is leaving but where was Brad on EASTER Sunday. Again this looks suspicious. Board messed up again. Oh sorry I forgot, the board reports to Brad. Come on J J Eaton, get some stones and do your job.
ReplyDeleteBe careful about painting the whole Liebe family with the same brush as you paint Brad. Larry bought his new home with inheritance money and sold some land he inherited in SD. We must be careful to not let ourselves become bitter about Brad's deceit, for then Satan has won yet another battle.
ReplyDeleteB rad has been forced out at Pathways for having an affair with his sister in law. He is done.
ReplyDeleteBrad Liebe forced to resign in disgrace due to behavior issue. Will be announced in email today and in church Saturday and Sunday.
ReplyDeleteIF this latest post about him being an adulterer is true, why would you be surprised that he's stealing someone else's little lamb? This is what wolves do. Pathways....get ready for a nasty attorney and a gag order on your church board members. PLEASE....post proof.
DeleteBoard has decided NOT to send our an email. Brad is also NOT going to have to address the congregation. Board says "It will serve no useful purpose". I thought the bible was quite clear as to what happens next. I will attend the 9:00 AM service Sunday and record the announcement. If I can figure out how to share it here I will.
DeleteIf possible, can someone post a copy of the email on here as a comment so all can see i?. Maybe not today but once it has been sent out. Thank you. Needless to say, we in Ft. Myers say "it's about time." Good for you Pathways. Now, hopefully, you can move forward in a more positive direction. There will be lots of people very mad about it though. Many, many will still be supportive of Brad (wolf in sheep's clothing). They were in Ft. Myers. Even after it was verified by external auditors that he stole all that money, many church members (believe it or not) asked how soon he could be brought back as a pastor at the church. People are clueless. The "cult of personality" at work!
ReplyDeleteTruthfully - Brad is still getting away with taking the money ... what he is being fired for is an affair with his sister in law.
ReplyDeleteThe staff page is down on the Pathways website. Apparently ripping off 700k and getting help from your ministry dad and lawyers to cover it up is ok, but we draw the line at having an affair with a sister in law. I guess it is good to know that the modern church still has a few standards.
ReplyDeleteSo is he actually stealing money at Pathways too?
ReplyDeleteThat is not why he is being fired; he is being fired for sex. But according to Kelly (sis n law), she thinks he is taking money .... let's just say she knows him well.
DeleteThere were two affairs. One with his sister-in-law, and another with a lady in FL. I am hearing the name Lisa. This is the reason that he was fired. There is no involvement from the family members other than trying to figure out how to trust and move forward in the situation.
ReplyDeleteI can assure you the accusation about a woman named Lisa is wrong. Lisa is happily married. She would NEVER be part of that. So, feel free to get rid of that name from the rumors. Don't ruin another family because of gossip.
DeleteGAG order time on all the board members. PATHWAYS....YOU IGNORED WHAT THE FINE PEOPLE OF FAOG TOLD YOU ABOUT THIS WOLF. For those of you who chastised us and told us how wonderful Brad Liebe is....you have just been PUNKED! Let me guess.... he's brought his nasty attorney in to threaten you board members, right? He'll now be quietly passed on to fleece another congregation. I feel extremely sorry for his children
ReplyDeleteEvery member of the staff at Pathways was sent an email in the very beginning days of all this telling them about Brad's past thievry/embezzlement at First Assembly in Ft. Myers. You should be ashamed of yourselves and repent before God AND your congregation. You were adequately warned. You have harmed your congregation, the innocents in this case. They didn't know but YOU did. His past was easily verified simply by calling First Assembly and/or the headquarters of Assemblies of God where his credentials/license had been revoked. Instead, you defended and protected him. You know exactly who you are. You allowed a wolf and a thief to continue on as your pastor, doing severe damage to your own church. Read your Bible. Don't tell me you don't know what the qualifications for pastoring are. If you don't, then you don't need to be in ministry work either. As to Mr. Liebe (Brad's father), YOU have also done a great a disservice to the Lord by enabling Brad to get this job in the first place. God will be your judge in due time. I suspect you will continue to enable him and help him find another ministry job somewhere else; maybe in another state. Jana, as an adult, you are also an enabler and an abused wife. Get yourself some help. The only ones I feel sorry for in this situation are Brad's children and the INNOCENT people within the congregation at Pathways. Keep in mind that not everyone at Pathways is innocent though. You others (the "protectors")are also enablers. Dan Betzer, you are probably the worst enabler of all. This is all your fault in the first place for not involving the law here in Ft. Myers when it all happened to begin with. Brad should be wearing an orange jumpsuit now and you should be visiting him in prison. You're a false pastor yourself. To the innocent Pathways attendees and members, please don't allow this to "turn you off" in regards to your love of the Lord. This is not His fault. This is sin run rampant in the institutional church system. Continue on in your love and pursuit of the Lord. This doesn't change anything about God. He is still on His throne. This is not His fault. Don't blame Him. Take back your church! Don't allow these false leaders to bewitch you.
ReplyDeleteYou my friend are the sick one. Yes, sin has found Brad out. yes people should have warned others. As a newcomer to pathways, I saw no evidence of stealing money on the blogs, but it seems like there is now proof. If Jesus walked the earth today and saw a prostitute about to be stoned, I guess you would have thrown all the rocks? Sad. If you don't have love you have nothing. You seem to be holding onto bitterness more than onto Jesus. A modern day Pharisee you are I see.
Deletefrom reading this blog I can see that about 90 percent of it is gossip and slander. I wouldn't call it a Christian blog at all. Don't you people have something better to do. it is great to be warned about these things, but let the warnings be factual, or please shut up. because of that, I'm out. the only enabling done was for Satan to use your mouths. sad and Ignorant. The institutional church or body of Christ whatever you call it, is going to have problems- it's made up of people , duh. to complain about it is just dumb. Satan love for people to separate their selves from the body- that's how cults are born. You can at least try to follow Christ and maybe learn to love.
DeleteFrom who did this email come? What exactly did the email say? Anyone can send an email. If you would, please share a copy of the email here so the readers know exactly what transgressions were detailed, and by whom.
DeleteHis sister in law, Kelly Dudley is not an innocent victim here. This is not her first affair and she had intimate knowledge of Brad's financial dealings and not only didn't report it, but received money from Pathways as an AG missionary.
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone has suggested that Kelly Dudley is an innocent victim.
ReplyDeleteI'm disappointed Pathways people. Nary a word about what was announced in church today?? Nothing? Is this all a joke or what?
ReplyDeleteWow, just can't wait to get the scuddle butt. JJ Eaton, Board Chairman, handled the "news". Brad and the staff had attended a conference in Atlanta a few weeks ago and the affair was discovered. JJ met with Brad and Jana on good Friday and confronted him with the evidence. Brad was suspended, with pay, at that time until more investigation could be done. On Wednesday of last week JJ met again with Brad and said they had to terminate him immediately. Pathway's will go on. Brad Liebe was not Pathway's church. The board got suckered into hiring him following the cover up in Fort Myers. Pathway's has no affiliation with AG or any of its rules. I have more questions that I need to ask of the board and they have said they are open to discussion. I am going to ask for a full audit of the church body for the entire time Brad was here. I could smell a skunk from day one but I am not a board member. The rest of the story is that Brad has been fired and this is just the beginning, not the end. I decided not to tape the service.
DeleteSo, let me get this straight. Kelly Dudley demolishes one pastor in Springfield MO, then runs up to WI to screw her brother in law? How does this woman live with herself?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ladylakeag.org/missions/missionaries/chris-and-kelly-dudley.html
They have been having an affair for 3 1/2 years. She was having both affairs at the same time apparently.
DeleteHow is a year long affair all her fault? The pastor in Springfield needs to stop playing the victim and own it.
DeleteAnnouncement was that he was fired for an affair Board and staff were all available for questions after, which people were doing
ReplyDeleteI was at church today, He was relieved of duty because of an affair. Very disappointed, but I told my wife when we first went there that something wasn't right with Brad! These posts and others alleging these things date back over a year. I have given much money that I dont have since that time...VERY SAD
ReplyDeleteNot much was said at Pathways this morning other than that Brad has been dismissed due to an affair. They talked more about how the church will move forward.
ReplyDeleteLarry Liebe and JJ Eaton were both given this information about Brad's affair months ago. They both viciously fought to protect him and cover up the truth.
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Now that the truth is out, what happens to these two men?
What proof do you have of this? Please share.
DeleteThe board was given the facts about Brad's affair with Kelly months ago ... so was Larry ... there is an email paper trail ... dozens of eyes have seen it
DeleteWhen Larry was told about Brad, his presbyters were copied on it. They kissed Larry's butt and didn't do anything. Here is a link to their leadership page ... there are a few new faces since this was reported.
Deletehttp://www.wnmdag.org/index.php/leadership/presbyters
Also, Steve Tripp was on the Pathways board when both Larry and the board were given information. Steve is an employee of Larry Liebe's at the District AG.
The official response from the board and Larry was threats from lawyers, etc.... to the person that delivered the information.
True story & it can easily be proven.
The above link is just a list of people. If there is an email trail then post something we at pathways can hang their hat on. I believe JJ Eaton is a scumbag just like Brad. I would love to bring him down.
DeleteYour board and all of Larry Liebe's Presbyters have the email trail.
DeleteImagine that. The staff page is back up on Pathway's website. Who is not listed besides Brad? Steve Tripp. He is not listed as a board member. What a worm.
DeleteYou don't know these men. You know the stories that people have thrown out here.
DeletePlease share this email evidence so that we can all see if it is legitimate or not. Who was it from? What evidence was there in the email?
DeleteIf it can be proven so easily, then do it. Why the hesitation of sharing this email. It makes one think it is not legit.
DeleteSeen on FB today, former Pastor Randerson said he supports Boards decision... But why isn't Brad being held responsible for his wrongdoing? The least he should do is apologize to the congregation for all the pain and upset he has caused... Never was a Brad-fan, left Pathways bc if him, something was off, turns out instincts were dead-on. I pray they take their time and find a quality leader this time.
ReplyDeleteHe lost his job over it, what else do you want him to do?
DeleteI got suckered. I want a full audit of the books and IRS audit, AND full membership meeting. Makes me wonder why the other pastor left about 4 weeks ago.... Something smells with the board and all of this cover up.
ReplyDeleteWhich other pastor left? Was it the "other" Liebe? I'm glad to hear your sense of smell is in good shape because, you are right, there's been a major cover up from the very beginning 3 years ago (or whatever it's been now). Your next job as a church is to get a brand new Board. Start fresh totally.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe how people seem to enjoy tearing up people's lives... So sad that I don't have such perfect friends as most people that have posted on this SAD situation! God loves EVERYONE in this situation equally... Yes, even my friend Brad.
ReplyDeleteBrad destroyed his own life with his "patern of behavior". He does not need this........he did a good job on his own.
DeleteI think we should be cautious and have an audit. This would clear Pastor Brad, or not. I am no longer comfortable with this state of affairs. When Pastor Brad was pastor, I thought he was wonderful, I am not beating him up. Then again, CAUTION, and reassurance that all is good should be taken. I would think even Brad would like an audit done, to clear his name, and be able to move on with his head held up. I am particularly concerned, that anyone would continue to use BLIND trust. That is a sure sign of a cover up! Finally, it is usually a standard practice in business regardless of what the circumstances were for him, or anyone in TOP management, such as a CEO to call for a audit. Just sound business practice. And yes, church is a business. I would think a new Pastor would feel reassured, he would start with a clean slate and clean set of books. Why would anyone want to come into someone else's mess?
ReplyDelete"Start with a clean slate"????? How does a "pastor" who embezzled large amounts of money from a congregation in FL., then is fired for an affair with his sister in law at another church start over with a "clean slate"???????????? Do you not know the holy scriptures? He is no longer above reproach. Even if he had Godly sorrow and repented...he has no business EVER being in a leadership position again with God's precious sheep.
DeleteReferring to the above reply: I think the blog on April 8 talking about the clean slate referred to whatever new pastor would come the way of Pathways, they weren't talking about Brad.
DeleteThis is a very frustrating blog, yet it appears to be the only outlet right now for those impacted by what happened at Pathways Church. I do not find this being discussed anywhere else. If anyone has suggestions on how to sort out fact from fiction regarding this situation, I would appreciate hearing any logical game plan.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe everything I am reading on this blog, but I do believe some of it. I do believe as a member of Pathways, I do not know exactly what happened that lead to Pastor Brad's removal. In hindsight I'm quite irritated by the relatively short message from JJ, given the gravity of the news, and then the effort to do a "lets move on" service. Yes, the pastors have had days to process Brad's removal but the church-goers have not. In fact, I was stunned when Dave (?) said he was "so excited for the future". Really, we just lost the pastor & you're so excited?
For anyone else who was at church on Sunday, did you find it confusing when JJ made a comment to the effect of, "we could show you the balance statement... but that would lead to more gossip." I didn't understand his point. Was that his attempt to say Brad's dismissal had nothing to do with money? I am glad to hear others here have noticed the growing budget over the years. I often mentioned it to my spouse that I thought the operating/weekly budget was getting out of hand but it just kept going up.
I do have so many other questions: where did Pastor Gary Smith go? We took up a collection for him and did a big send-off, yet not once during the service I was at did anyone say where he was going. I declined to make a donation when I had no idea where he was headed.
I also found it disingenuous that they did a collection earlier in the service this past Sunday. Lance said we were ending service differently so the collection would be taken earlier. The collection was done.. then we were told Brad was out.. and service did NOT end differently. Was that an attempt to make budget before breaking the bad news?
As church goers, how can we force more information from the board? I know that I will continue to go to Pathways for now to see where this church is headed but I am NOT giving another dime during collection until I have a clear idea that this church is not deceptive. I do not have faith in the board and in the end, suspect I will turn to another church. I don't think I'm being outrageous or hateful or trying to do in anyone's family. I just want to have faith in my church again.
But again, if this is the only source where people can express their frustration, how will the church and/or board know this is a crisis?
The board should be on their knees asking the church to forgive them. The knew all about Brady and his past before they hired him.
DeleteGary is staying with the church. They said that like 500 times during multiple services. He just stepped down from fine arts.
DeleteGary did not just "step down from fine arts". He RESIGNED as a pastor of Pathways.
DeleteVery saddened by these recent events. History repeating itself on the SAME land over a 15 yr period. Sad yet if we fail to learn from history we are doomed to repeat it. Many in the body of Christ are kept in the dark about the inner workings of the church--we trust and many times are hurt down the road by things we were blind to see at the time. I pray that Pathways will move forward with the power of the Holy Spirit. God is not please by what has happened but IF those responsible will repent, He will forgive. Accountability needs to be a foundational mandate of the new Pathways leadership; if not, there is NO way I would continue to support this church.
ReplyDelete"A pastor must be BLAMELESS, the husband of ONE wife, temperate, sober minded, of GOOD BEHAVIOR, hospitable, able to teach; not violent, not GREEDY FOR MONEY, but gentle, not QUARRELSOME, not COVETOUS; one who rules his house well, having his own children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?; not a novice, lest he being PUFFED UP WITH PRIDE he fall into the same condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a GOOD TESTIMONY among those who are on the outside, LEST HE FALL INTO REPROACH and the snare of the devil." 1 Tim 3:1-7
ReplyDeleteHey Brad protector/defender, if you can't stand it, then quit coming here to read these postings. Go on with your full life and leave everyone else alone. I see that you have been sucked in to the whole "Brad charisma thing."
ReplyDeleteRead the posting again more carefully. It is the NEW pastor who would be able to start at the church with a clean slate; not Brad. It is only fair that a complete financial audit be done by EXTERNAL auditors (not internal) for the sake of the members of the church AND for the sake of a new pastor who eventually gets hired. Let that NEW pastor start with the clean slate and also a new board.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, so sorry. I read in haste and righteous indignation. My comment though still applies because there is NO WAY Brad Liebe can leave with his head held high and why in the world should he? Would the Apostle Paul want him to leave with his head held high? Paul would never put up with this mans deplorable behavior
DeleteWell said! Oh, gee, that's because it comes straight out of the Word of God. Yes, the Bible gives the EXACT qualifications of a pastor (and other leaders as well for that matter). Too bad those qualifications were overlooked when Brad was slipped in on you.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone reached out to Jana and the kids? This must be devastating news for them. Very sad!!! I sure hope they get the help they need. Obviously Brad is a flawed man that does not need to be in ministry but nontheless he and his family desperately need help.
ReplyDeleteNo problem. I figured you had just misread that part of it. You are also exactly right that Brad can never ever "biblically" pastor a church again. He was disqualifed from that when he stole the money from the church in FL. But, unfortunately, as you can see, that didn't stop him from doing it again, did it? The biblical qualifications are totally clear. Above reproach, etc. He can never be above reproach again with these marks on his name. Even if he totally, honestly, sincerely, in truth, repents (and I hope he does), his name has been besmirched and his reputation ruined as far as biblically pastoring again. Supposedly, he repented when he left the church in Ft. Myers. You can see how sincere that was. Yep, Paul would never ever have put up with this kind of garbage. He would have been kicked out of the group immediately if he refused to change his ways. As you can see by reading many of these posts, people just don't care. They don't follow the biblical standards at all. In fact, most people probably don't even know what the biblical standards are. They are mesmerized by the person's charisma and then they are toast! There are still people right here within the church who are supporting Brad and trying to argue that "there is no proof." It would be laughable if it weren't so serious.
ReplyDeleteWhat flavor Kool-Aid are you continuing Brad supporters drinking? Must be really good. Didn't anyone tell you about the poison in it?
ReplyDeleteSo the Board reports to the Sr. Pastor?? How convenient is that? No accountability then at all. We the people of Pathways should insist on changing that around. We've got to come together church people and take back our own church! This is crazy.
ReplyDeleteWhy is this Brian Finger being brought up? What does he have to do with this? Can someone fill me in?
ReplyDeleteDoes anybody know how the other Pastors of Pathways feel about all of this? I see somebody commented above that Pastor Lance has his house for sale...does that matter? Their world has been shaken by all this as well as Brad's entire family. Jana, their children, Pathways Church, Pathways leaders, members and even Brad need our prayers now more than ever.
ReplyDeleteAnd what about Brandon, his brother that works at Parhways? Where is he in all of this?
DeleteThe four remaining pastors are the ones who confronted Brad directly and then got the board involved. They insisted on the board on Brad leaving the church.
DeleteAll the pastors sat with their wives in the front row during the Sunday service and he was there too. He seemed to idolize his brother. Now I can't help but not feel trust toward him either.
DeleteWas Brandon one of the four to confront Brad? Retribution for Brad firing him as youth pastor in Fort Myers? Interesting....
DeleteAre the Liebe's and Dudley's going to try to repair the marriages? I hope they do. It's not hard to be faithful. I pray both marriages recover and Brad finds work outside of the church.
ReplyDeleteI currently attend Pathways. News of Brad's history has impacted me much more than his present situation in the sense that it implicates the church leadership team. Here is the message I sent the leadership team of Pathways. Please let me know if you think I am on target or not:
ReplyDeleteDear Pathways leadership team,
I thought the service on 4/7 was handled wonderfully. It was a great teaching opportunity to demonstrate the Biblical principles of forgiveness and grace in very difficult circumstances. The only thing that didn't sit well with me was the very stern warning to keep this off of facebook and twitter. The delivery of that warning threw me off a little bit but I accepted it at the time because I understood the underlying principle that this is not an appropriate topic to discuss publicly in the sense that it could be very harmful to newer Christians and the congregation in general. Then I discovered Brad's history at FAOG in Fort Myers and the warning made much more sense to me. Brad's history is much more devastating than anything he has done currently. If it was just Brad we could move on as a congregation. Brad's affair is devastating but what your church leadership has perpetrated on the congregation by hiring him in the first place is unforgivable. He disqualified himself from a leadership role. The fact that you married your organization to him speaks volumes about the type of organization you are. When Brad's history comes out your church will not survive, and rightfully so. This is my opinion and I predict this will be the opinion of most people when they learn the facts that have been hidden from them by you this entire time. Despite your warnings this will go public and spread very far in a very short amount of time (the affair and the embezzlement). People will put 2 and 2 together. Your only hope to save your church is to go public with the justification for hiring him in the first place. Be proactive. Correct me if I am wrong. If you can provide no reasonable alternative explanation for your actions in hiring Brad then you as a leadership team are even more corrupt than he is and the people need to be protected from you. I hope with all of my heart that I am wrong about this and I look forward to your response, both privately and publicly.
I attend Pathways and feel that the leadership team has more to answer for than Brad does. This is the message I sent them. I'd be interested to hear what people think of this point of view:
ReplyDeleteDear Pathways leadership team,
I thought the service on 4/7 was handled wonderfully. It was a great teaching opportunity to demonstrate the Biblical principles of forgiveness and grace in very difficult circumstances. The only thing that didn't sit well with me was the very stern warning to keep this off of facebook and twitter. The delivery of that warning threw me off a little bit but I accepted it at the time because I understood the underlying principle that this is not an appropriate topic to discuss publicly in the sense that it could be very harmful to newer Christians and the congregation in general. Then I discovered Brad's history at FAOG in Fort Myers and the warning made much more sense to me. Brad's history is much more devastating than anything he has done currently. If it was just Brad we could move on as a congregation. Brad's affair is devastating but what your church leadership has perpetrated on the congregation by hiring him in the first place is unforgivable. He disqualified himself from a leadership role. The fact that you married your organization to him speaks volumes about the type of organization you are. When Brad's history comes out your church will not survive, and rightfully so. This is my opinion and I predict this will be the opinion of most people when they learn the facts that have been hidden from them by you this entire time. Despite your warnings this will go public and spread very far in a very short amount of time (the affair and the embezzlement). People will put 2 and 2 together. Your only hope to save your church is to go public with the justification for hiring him in the first place. Be proactive. Correct me if I am wrong. If you can provide no reasonable alternative explanation for your actions in hiring Brad then you as a leadership team are even more corrupt than he is and the people need to be protected from you. I hope with all of my heart that I am wrong about this and I look forward to your response, both privately and publicly.
Agreed. I sent a similar l sent a similar letter to them. The membership should meet and an audit needs to be done.
DeleteThe bible says that when someone is confronted with their repeated sin, you expose it publicly so that others are afraid to commit the same sin. (1 Timothy 5:20 says "rebuke in the presence of all") When you keep it hushed, you actually hurt the body because it loses the fear of sinning. "Hush hush" is not a biblical principle to protect people. It harms the church. In fact, the words "rebuke" or "repent of sin" were never mentioned by the leadership. The answer for Brad and Jana? Counseling. The leadership has strayed off scripture and is employing psychological and business principles to handle the matter. I would run as fast as I could from this church if I was attending.
DeleteHave either of you received a reply back?
DeleteI sent a similar letter to all board member asking for the audit and full disclosure of all finances too.
DeleteAfter talking to the President of the Board and getting NO answers and a lot of round about talk. They don't seem any better than Brad and are definitely covering up too. The congregation needs to take a stand!
While all of this is tremendously disappointing, my main concern is about who will step in to lead next? It is absolutely CRITICAL that a man or woman of integrity be chosen to lead. And I completely agree that the government of the church needs an overhaul. Power is a tremendous temptation to most - a temptation even Jesus faced. The leader who steps into the light next will either resurrect the hearts of the Pathways Church or turn us out to greener pastures where the Word is unadulterated by personality, greed, deception, etc. Step up, Pathways!
ReplyDeleteThe main person that enabled Brad besides his dad and sick family (who all knew about Kelly Dudley and the money) ... is JJ Eaton.
DeleteBy family I mean Brads family - Kelly's family - her husbands family - by the way, everyone of them in positions of leadership in ministry.
Please help me understand how and why Jana would stay with Brad? What kind of example is this to her children? How do forgive a man like Brad? How do you show your face in public if your last name is Liebe? I am in disbelief of all that I am hearing and reading. I know I shouldn't be shocked, but I am. What is wrong with the mental state of this arrogant family? I do believe Larry Liebe has a lot of apologizing to do. This family has hurt and damaged so many lives, I don't know how they can look at themselves in the mirror. We are with flaws and sin, but come on already, Christian ministry runs deep in this family. I think it's high time they all step down, apologize for being WRONG on every level. Stop the "Christian" facade and come clean! This has gone on long enough, wouldn't you agree?
ReplyDeleteBrad and his sister in law are a lot alike. Both are manipulators... they come across as something they are not with their pseudo spirituality ... they are intelligent and intuitive .... but deep down something is wrong. They are preachers kids in ministry and can't survive outside of it, but they have a deep hatred for the things of God and subconsciously destroy Gods work.
ReplyDeleteYou need to do some research on Brandon Liebe's reason for leaving First Assembly in Ft. Myers. Yes, Brad had hired him there too. His leaving was NOT voluntary. He didn't last long at all. Approx. a year at best. He was a youth pastor there.
ReplyDeleteEvery person in Brads family - Kelly D family - and her husbands family knew about the affair and the ripping off of money .... but remained silent.
ReplyDeleteAll of these people are in full time ministry and it would be interesting to look at the Pathways records and see how much money has been spent on their ministries in the last couple of years.
Pathways has supported all the Leibe causes. Its really funny how we are supporting his Dads cause in Milwaukee, his brother as a missionary, his other brother was brought on as a Pastor at Pathways too
DeleteSo....after having my heart broke while reading all of the above information. I agree 100% with the letter that was sent to the Pathways leadership team. I believe that we need to gather as a church family and have an open forum with the board of directors and the leadership team to answer all of our questions. Pathways members belong to a wonderful church family and I believe we can rise above this but we need and deserve some answers. How do we faithfully give our tithe and trust again at this point? I fear we will lose many members if these questions are not addressed.
ReplyDelete"The great thing about getting the wind knocked out of you before, is that the next time it happens you know you will breath again."
ReplyDelete4:54pm - 9 Apr 13, tweeted by Brad
"The great thing"???
"The next time it happens"???
Sounds like a game to Brad. This guy is unbelievable!?!
I saw the tweet at well. What does this mean? It sounds like Brad is suggesting he has been blindsided by this development. Is he denying it? I am disgusted by this tweet.
DeleteThe above tweet does not appear on Brad's twitter account this morning. I guess he has re-thought the arrogance and implications of what he said.
DeleteTweet that was posted yesterday has been removed. Could it be this blog is being monitored & someone advised that the tweet was not in Brad's best interest?
DeleteI replied to that tweet. I stated that it would have been nice to hear remorse instead of his "everything is going to be ok" attitude. I thought it was narcistic and said how sad I was.
DeleteIt was gone as fast as a posted it.
This fb page also has some interesting information.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/captnjack5117/info?ref=ts#!/pages/What-happened-to-Integrity-Christian-Center/212745168798855?fref=ts
The board of a Church MUST run a Church to the ABSOLUTE BEST of their abilities. Would they have allowed Brad, knowing his past to have access to their business checking account or personal checking accounts knowing his past?
ReplyDeleteThis is a Severe lack of judgement on all of their parts.
Keep in mind that when we "gather as a church family" and include the staff and board too, the staff and board will be "covering themselves" first. We will probably NOT get totally truthful answers. Everyone is jockying for position and doing the whole "damage control" thing now. It's all about maintaining the membership and, most importantly, our tithes, offerings, etc. It's also about "protecting" the church from bad publicity. It's OK to have that kind of meeting but then afterwards if we don't get truthful and satisfactory answers we need to meet again WITHOUT the board and leadership and talk about a plan of action to correct these deficiencies so that it can never happen again. In the meantime, our best way of "voting" about something (since they don't really allow us to vote on anything) is to "vote" with our checkbooks. Seriously, do you really want to put your hard earned money into this church again right now before you are convinced that everything has been cleaned up?
ReplyDeleteOur conversation with the Board President, was that we were told to trust them. We asked, how do we do that, knowing you hired Brad, knowing his past. He should have NEVER preached again. If you loose your license, you did something pretty bad and instead of it being covered up, he should have went to prison. I think we need a NEW board. JJ.Eaton is as crafty as Brad and should be outed
DeleteI think that the Wisconsin AG district leaders need to call for the resignation of Larry Liebe. If they don't, it certifies that they too are guilty of cover-ups and corruption, since it seems that all of his presbyters have known about this for months. To turn your cheek on this kind of behavior and tolerance is blasphemy to Jesus. Even though Brad is no longer affiliated with the AG, someone in a position of leadership needs to take a stand against the Liebe family (including Brandon Liebe, Brent Liebe, Chris Dudley, as well as, the Roland Dudley family, and the Paul Weis family) and remove them ALL from any position of power. Please end this era of hypocrites!!
ReplyDeleteIf anyone takes funds from any company or organization - say a Church - even if they are legally allowed to do so - and not claimed them on their taxes, they have committed a crime. This must checked in extreme detail. And if there is anything illegal, it MUST be reported to the authorities - I'm talking Police - not church.
ReplyDeleteThe board must check into this and disclose ALL findings. Not say - 'it opens up for more rumors" like in their sermon last week.
There is money raised for missionaries each week. The 2 women that brad had affairs with are in the missionary fields. Was any money given to them through this collection?
The Church - the ones that tithe all of that money - deserve to know everything.
WAY too much in the dark here.
It really does seem like a game to Liebe.
Come on Board - Step up! Do your Job!
I so agree with this. We need to get the word out at Pathways, the congregation needs to take this into their own hands. The board is not looking out for us, they are covering themselves.
DeleteThe AG district summit was held earlier this week in Appleton at the Radisson. All of us that knew about this situation were waiting with baited breath to hear Larry Liebe announce his resignation. THERE WAS NO MENTION AT ALL. Larry did appear a bit shaken. Brandon Liebe made a brief cameo appearance in the lobby. The Liebes are the most unethical people you will meet. Larry, along with his cronies (the presbyters) are taking down churches left and right in our network to carry out their toxic agenda. This is a CLEAR VIOLATION ON THE DISTRICT LEVEL!
ReplyDeleteThis news will officially go to the fox valley news channels. In days to come it would behoove us to notify the general superintendent George Wood (email: GeneralSuperintendent@ag.org) and the constituents of the Wisconsin Northern Michigan Network about this scandalous cover up. Point them to this blog! It would be wise to ask the presbyters to step down as to begin with a clean slate. No doubt they knew of this situation.
Bottom line is Brad needs to go away along with Steve Tripp. Steve serves on the board at Pathways. He also holds a position at the AG district office. He is a snake. Larry Liebe needs to announce his resignation as well. No amount of money or lawyering up is going to quiet the masses this time. This news has traveled to us all the way in southern Wisconsin.
Email George Wood today! Notify the news and credential holders of the Wisconsin Northern Michigan Network.
Will you be doing this person who posted this? I agree whole-heartedly!
DeleteIs it any wonder that so many believers have left traditional church and are no longer attending "churchianity?" This senario of embezzlement, affairs, top man down control, cover ups, etc. is just too common in all denominations now. When you realize that a wolf has been leading you and that you fell for it, it feels extrememly creepy and disheartening. Dont lose heart though saint of God! Use this disappointment to seek the Lord even more. Ask Him to grow greater discernement in you. Ask yourself what you believe about God and why? Did some man tell you how to believe, or did you read it and recieve it through God's holy Spirit through His word? Are you studying God's word for yourself daily and listening to Him, or have you been letting some man like Brad Liebe spoon feed you? What happened at Pathways and down in Ft. Myers is a huge wake up call. There is nothing new under the sun. Now what are you going to do about your spiritual growth? Stop looking to any person to give you God. Whatever you hear from any pulpit take it to the Lord and sift it through His word. Time to practice being a Berean "who studied the scriptures daily to see if what they had heard was true." Dont let yourself fall for another charismatic "cloud without water" To all the humble men and women of God out there who serve Him faithfully and hold onto His word and love His sheep and tend to His sheep without thoughts of ungodly gain...I salute you!! I pray that you would be one of whom this word is not worthy.
DeleteI would like to say a few things on here.
ReplyDelete1) I am going out on a limb here and saying most if not all of you on here are Christian. So, I think some of the harshness with our tongues need to be cooled down. Yes, I do agree what he did was wrong (both times) and that he should have to pay his dues because of, but for us to come down on him meanly, harshly and critically is not something we should be proud of.
2) I also was at District Summit this past weekend and had no idea what was going until this afternoon, however I would really like to know we everyone is saying hang the whole Liebe family. Larry has no reason to tell everyone in the Assemblies of God that a pastor outside of the Assemblies has fallen. His responsibility is to the Assemblies of God. Yes, it is his, yes if his son was credentialed with the AG it would look bad, but the fact is that he is not. So, how is Larry guilty in this? If you want to go with the whole they have know for three months argument lets do it. 1. PROVE IT before you put it all over the internet and give innocent people bad names. 2. There is this thing called due process and yes even in the Church we can follow this. A rumor is a rumor because it is now always true and with things of this scale you really need to be sure that it is not false. It takes so long because all of these men are extremely busy men and cannot focus every single day on it.
1) Larry Liebe and his presbyters were given proof of the Kelly Dudley affair months ago and the presbyters let Larry manipulate them and they were silent.
Delete2) Now that the affair has come to light ... where are the presbyters.
They are all just religious politicians. It is not real Christianity. These are the people that killed Jesus man! Pharisees.
1) What proof do you have of this? Also if he knew why would his presbyters know? The presbyters are not told everything, that happens in Larry's personal life and this would be personal since Brad has nothing to do with the AG which means Larry has not control over disciplinary action.
DeleteI absolutely did just defend Larry Liebe. I know the man personally and have always known him as a man of character and integrity. I do think what Brad did was wrong and honestly I am very upset by it. Pathways decided to give the man a second chance and it ended up biting them and it is sad. That being said Pathways has no affiliation with the AG. so what exactly did Larry do wrong? If he did something wrong I will be the first to make sure he gets some sort of disciplinary action, but all of you,are just yelling crucify with no justification for it except that he is Brads dad.
DeleteIf you defend Larry you are just as bad as Brad
DeleteI for one WILL be there SUNDAY just to hear what is said! The above blogs are all right on (with exception of one) I will no longer tithe
ReplyDeleteunless things get corrected FAST! ALL THE LIEBE'S MUST GO! I HAVE NO TRUST WITH ANYONE RIGHT NOW CONNECTED TO THE CHURCH.. REALLY SAD AND FRUSTRATED ABOUT THIS
Can you say nepotism? The favoring of relatives or personal friends because of their relationship rather than because of their abilities.
ReplyDeleteI am disheartened. I feel lied to and "duped" by JJ Eaton and the Pathways staff. In JJ's words "I see a man remorseful of his repeated behavior and a wife wanting reconciliation" however, rumblings I've heard are that Brad is not remorseful at all. If you search for his address the person "connected" with him is a Lisa Chandler. So, my question is, is that "her"? Are they really living together less than a week after the announcement? Or did this all start when Brad and Jana sold their house back last fall? Has this been covered up all this time? Did the staff know about this and just keep it hidden? I'm really beginning to question the judgement of the staff and the board. Truth is really what the people of Pathways deserve.
ReplyDeleteCan someone confirm if its true that Brad is living with his mistress?
DeleteIf you do a search of online records it indicates that a Brad Liebe lives at either his brother's house or at Lisa Chandler's house. If you do an online search of Jana Liebe it brings up the address on Thornbrook. But that house was sold in June, 2012. This is incredibly confusing. Has this family not been a family since last summer?
DeleteIs anybody concerned that the leaders of Pathways will not address any of our concerns and service will "go on as usual"? I'm afraid that will happen and we will all go on without any answers...answers that we all deserve to hear. The truth.
ReplyDeleteI am sure it will not be address even if someone stands up during the service and demands answers. This ushers have been instructed to remove anyone that created a scene.
DeleteThat would be your que to leave!
DeleteI am very concerned that this Sunday we will see an attempt for service to go on as usual. For the time being, I will continue to go to Pathways in hopes that we will see an effort to salvage this church which has brought me great meaning the past few years. But, each Sunday that I go-- instead of putting money in the collection envelope, I will leave a message in the envelope asking for a church meeting and a full audit of monies used by the church. As another person mentioned, our only vote right now is with our wallet. That bothers me, but that is the reality. The church leadership would do well to hire someone in PR crisis management to help it through this mess.
DeleteIf you are voting with your wallet then you do not know what tithing is. God doesn't want your money if you use it as a political tool. I am amazed that everyone thinks they need all the details. We know what was done. An audit and some clarification would be nice, but to blackmale a church by not giving- please take your money elsewhere- I don't want to associate with you as a fellow Christian. We are known by our love not our money.
DeleteIf Brad took any money unauthorized/illegally - (he has a history of taking money and has admitted it) - then people stopped giving to God's Church long ago and were giving to Brad's cookie jar.
DeleteThat's all we are asking of the board. Is to show Gods people - the members what happened.
I would assume that Lisa Chandler is the owner of the house that Brad is renting which is why their names come up. I may be wrong but that would make sense unless someone has different information.
ReplyDeleteCan we just make this a reality show? Brad can make tons of money just by being his same slimy self, and we can all stay in the loop! It's a win win!
ReplyDeleteThis whole situation makes me think of the show, "Who The Bleep...", he definitely qualifies for that show.
DeleteIf Larry Liebe, The AG Presbyters and The District Staff had information about an alledged affair involving Brad Liebe, they had a responsibility that extends beyond denominational lines to confront Brad and Jana not to mention the board of pathways church. Larry, the presbyters and staff have to answer to the people of pathways not to mention GOD for keeping this incident silent. The church and its leadership have taken too many liberty's with stealing, affairs, immoral behavior, etc.
ReplyDeleteWe may never know the truth this side of eternity but it is certain that "your sins will find you out."
I have been following this blog for two years now, and as a member of Pathways, I am heartsick at all that has transpired. I have never posted here before but would like to make a couple of points now. First, anyone in church last weekend heard the same thing I did: Staff and board members are willing to meet with us one-on-one to discuss our questions and concerns. Time spent speculating here is wasted at this point. What some of you criticizers out there don't realize is that in a staff run church, the members really have no recourse to address concerns without being told to find the door, as several Pathways members have already experienced. This has NOT been a transparent church, at least up to this point. I personally will be meeting with one of the staff next week. Whether or not I get a straight story remains to be seen, but I will have a list of questions I want addressed. It will then be my choice to believe what I hear or leave. I am very concerned that a cover-up has been perpetuated by the staff and board since Brad's hiring. If it comes out that the board and staff knew of Brad's history in FL and hired him anyway, SHAME ON THEM. If even a portion of what's been reported here is correct, he had no business being pastor of any church. The board and any staff involved back then has to be replaced as well if that is the case. How we prove or disprove that though, is another matter. Perhaps some of you who claim to have an email trail will step in here and put your money where your mouth is. The tragedy here lies in the number of lives Brad touched while here, potentially under false pretenses. To how many engaged couples did he offer pre-marital counseling? How about the couples with floundering marriages? I am as sickened by the possibility that all of this could have been avoided as I am by his infidelity.
ReplyDeletePlease, Pathways people, go ASK for answers. You will not get them here. There are so many wonderful, loving people in our church. WE CAN MOVE ON AND BE A BEACON TO THE WORLD...but...and this goes out to the staff and board...IF WE ASK FOR THE TRUTH, PLEASE GIVE IT TO US!
Very well said!! Please write down your questions and ask for direct answers, not a general discussion. Write down the answers you get. I will attempt to meet with one staff person and two board members and ask the same questions and them compare answers. I will make my decision based on their answers and my gut feeling. I attended a congregation meeting shortly after Brad came Pathways. The meeting was held to clear up questions about Ft. Myers and how is was that he was appointed. He talked a lot, chose his words carefully but did not really disclose anything of substance. I left feeling "something was wrong".
DeleteYou won't get them there either. We talked to the president of the board and we got the run around ,and many vague answers. Nothing specific and no actual answers.They are definitely covering their behind.
DeleteThat might be true. Makes sense and teaches me not to jump to conculsions. Still not 100% convinced because the name Lisa has been thrown around regarding who he was having the affair with, but it's an explanation. The fact still remains that Brad and Jana sold their house MONTHS ago and had rented two residents. So really, what I want to know is how long the board/staff has known about this. I know office staff members left the church well over 6 weeks ago....could they have known at that time and just didn't want to be under Brad's leadership? Lots of happenings going on there in the last few months that have raised some eyebrows and noone could figure out why. Now it's all starting to make sense and it's looking more and more like the board and/or staff knew about this long before they let him go. I don't know that I want to be a part of a church that is willing to let that kind of behavior go on. Were they more concerned about continuing to get the $30,000+ budget covered every week than holding their "charismatic, politician" leader accountable to the Word?
ReplyDeleteYes, so let's hurt them the only way we can...in their pocketbook, until they hold a church meeting, audit and make the financial information available to everyone.
DeleteDo you know how that sounds-"let hurt them" Hasn't enough pain been caused. What kind of Christian talks that way? Known I want to hang with.
DeletePathways people need to contact the IRS, Grace Intnl., and some of the members from the FL church. They need to contact the police and the AG national office. Everyone involved needs to be forced to come clean with everything and deal with the consequences. If you don't get satisfaction, go to the media.
DeleteI hate to say this, but I agree. The only way we will get any answers as a church family is to stop our givings. I for one am afraid to go the church leaders with this as I have read many horror stories of people asking questions and them being told to leave. I don't want to leave, I just want some honest answers. What they tell one they should tell all. No more secrets. There are so many great, great members of Pathways!! I hope they can come forward with answers so as not to lose any members. One thing I still don't understand. Are all the pastors involved in these doings? Does silence make them guilty if they knew all along? How did they carry the guilt of what they knew? What do they intend to do going forward to gain that trust back? It all hurts so much and so deep for the Church Family.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you trust god and keep giving and meet with leaders if you have questions? Just saying.
DeleteThe Liebe's, The Dudley's, The Leadership at Pathways church, The AG Presbyters and anyone else who decided that Brad should have a second chance at ministry are flat out wrong.
ReplyDeleteBrad has a trail of deceit stretching back 20 years. Starting as a youth pastor, moving on through his missions work then as the sr. associate in Florida and now finally at Pathways. Brad should not have been in ministry from the beginning. Forgive him "YES" forget his actions "NO". People of Pathways do not allow this man to keep doing this. The AG Missions swept it under the rug. The Church in Florida swept it under the rug. The AG district office has swept it under the rug. What will you do Pathways????
I know two things for sure. Brad and his family need prayer and help. Secondly, Brad should never be allowed to be in any position of leadership inside any church. He disqualified himself for that calling well before he began working at Pathways.
Pathways, you must demand answers from your leadership. This Sunday cannot be business as usual. If you want any hope of salvaging your church you must demand answers in an open air session and not a closed door meeting. The days of secret closed door meetings must come to an end. Stand up now or you will forfiet that right later.
Tough stuff to read. Pathways Board please do not make the same mistake we made down here in Fort Myers. You need full and complete disclosure of all the financial records and any other records dealing with Brad and his affairs. The Board needs to be transparent and offer a public apology for the way it has lead your church. Some board members may have to step down. It is better to acknowledge your mistakes and step down on your own than be forced to do so. Stomp out the pride and Pathways will be fine.
ReplyDeleteSomeone please, please confirm that Brad is not living with another woman. Someone please tell me he is either at home with his wife or at least with his brother.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone have any solid proof as to what happened outside of Brad? Because if not this has just become a big gossip page and is starting to become very unhealthy.
ReplyDeleteI think Larry Liebe is a snake and the whole district is involved with it. The whole district should be fired and started fresh!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteAnonymity is for cowards. I encourage every post hereafter to have a name, locale, and phone number. Suddenly, the fruit of the Spirit will manifest.
ReplyDeleteZach Burris
Stratford, WI
715-223-7496
Who cares what your name is if you're not going to make a statement!????
DeleteIt's nice to see you put your name here. You didn't say anything though.
DeleteAnd your name is? I rest my case.
DeleteI agree with some of the above posters. Go to the staff and ask questions. I did and they took the time to answer my questions completely. Not one question was unanswered. The staff seem more open now then ever. If you are still worried they won't address your concerns, at least try. If they do then great. If not you have all the answers you need.
ReplyDeleteThis is very encouraging to hear that you had a positive experience. Please elaborate on what you found out. You mention asking the staff questions and getting answers... "completely". Please share with the rest on what you asked and what you were told.
DeleteDid you ask how long the staff and board knew Brad was having an affair?
Did you ask if there is any concern that money might have been diverted to places and to people that are not appropriate uses of the congregation's money?
Did you ask for a full audit to disclose why the weekly budget has jumped to $30,000 per week to run the church?
I'm so glad you got answers. Now please share them... it might help many of us get to a better place.
That is the best post I have seen on here. AWESOME!!!! GOD BLESS YOU!!!
DeleteHere is the response to the email I sent:
ReplyDeleteFrom: kbeutler@affinityhealth.org
To: conradclayson@hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:31:27 -0500
Subject: Church issue
Conrad, your email was forwarded to me as I am a member of the board. Would you feel comfortable forwarding your phone number? I would love to talk w/ you on the phone or in person. We are all devastated re: the behavior of our pastor. I think if we discussed the board's role in church operations (which was truly minimal under the governance practices in place) it would be beneficial.
Your sister in Christ,
Karen Beutler
kbeutler@new.rr.com
Unfortunately their response was pretty much what I expected: "Come here and let me talk to you, lets work this out just me and you." It is keeping in line with the statement made during the "Announcement Sunday" that we need to keep this between family and no one else should know. If I'm not mistaken that is one of the favorite tactics of pedophiles, apparently because it is so effective.
And my reply to Karen:
I'm not devastated by Brad's behavior. He never struck me as a sincere person so his actions don't phase me at all. I of course never expected anything as drastic as this, but it does go a long way to explain the uneasy feelings I had about him. I went to Pathways because my wife was trying to become involved there. She was finally making an effort to be involved in the body of Christ so I did what I thought I should do to support her.
I guess I was under the impression that the board selected Brad and that the board knew of Brad's history. If I am mistaken in this please let me know. If this is the truth then I do believe you when you say you are devastated by his behavior as it will shine a light on your motivations for hiring an unqualified leader in the first place. He brings people in. He brings money in.
Also, if the board is not involved in church operations as you say, then I am assuming the pastors that he has brought on board are? This certainly would not entice me to continue to participate. I'm afraid I am quite in the dark about how Pathways operates as is everybody else. This is not an ideal situation and will not be solved by individual phone calls.
Judging from your response I'm afraid my original message was unclear. I would like to reiterate that I am calling for openness and honesty in a public manner, not a private conversation. I am angry that I participated in your organization. I feel cheated out of the tens of thousands of dollars that I have entrusted to you under the guise of a tithe. Had I known your figurehead "pastor" was unfit for leadership I would NEVER have given you a dime. But I didn't know that. Nor did the countless others who would have had the discernment not to support an organization such as yours had they known the truth.
I decline to give you my phone number as a private conversation will not solve the problem that I have. If your strategy is to try to keep this quiet such as what the "church" chose to do when Brad was fired from FAOG and again when he was hired by you, I would urge you to reconsider.
Regards
As an aside, I would just like to comment that for the most part the people posting here seem to have a sincere concern over the events that have occurred and would like to protect those that are ignorant of the truth. Then there seem to be the few that are involved in spreading rumors and gossip which only serves to denigrate the reliability of the actual confirmed information contained here that the people need to know. I would question the motivation of the people posting such things and would hope the rest of us would have the discernment to stick to the facts.
Amen. I agree completely with your response to Ms. Beutler's email. The ONLY thing that will save this church is total openness from this point forward. We need a full congregational meeting in which all are welcome to ask questions without being stonewalled. And maybe a couple board members will have to admit they screwed up and didn't do their due diligence in hiring this man in the first place. How in the world do they expect us to trust them going forward if they don't?
DeleteThank you Karen for your last paragraph. I stumbled upon this blog last year accidentally looking for info about my own pastor and his resignation at Northpoint. When our former pastor's wife posted a status Sunday about Brad Liebe's resignation, I came back to see what was on this blog. It was very upsetting. I felt last summer, and much more now, that the blog had been hijacked by people with their own agendas that have nothing to do with the pain and suffering that the Pathways church community is going through right now. I for one, would be grateful if the people connected to our former pastor (as well as him and his family) and Northpoint church community would invest in their own healing, hope and future.
DeleteYou guys will get through this. We have. It was rough in the beginning, especially after the initial shock wore off. Our church had to close two campuses because of financial issues on top of the pastor's resignation. But, with the intent focus of finding a new pastor and people working together, the extension campuses were back open within a short time and our focus is still on making a difference in our community and growing in our own journey following Jesus. Our advisory board also made changes to the church structure to help keep some things from happening again, like the fact that the finances were not doing so well, and nobody knew.
I am sorry that your church family is going through this. It is hard. I know. But, keep focused on the main and important things. And although I can't apologize for the people who are posting here concerning issues not related to Pathways, I am now one of them….sigh….I can still hope and pray that as you all pull together with wisdom and focus, you will heal together as a church family and become a healthier church and atmosphere for your community.
Blessings and prayers from a Northpoint attendee
Can I just say that FAOG in Fort Myers tried to warn you Pathways! You did nothing but shame us for being vindictive and judgmental. We never wanted this to happen again. I am sorry for your church and all the innocent lives this will affect. Maybe next time you won't be so naive.
ReplyDeleteFor those of you who have had the opportunity to sit with the board or Pathways leaders, can you share some comments or questions that were answered? Or have they asked you to keep silent?
ReplyDeleteIf Brad took any money unauthorized/illegally - (he has a history of taking money and has admitted it) - then people stopped giving to God's Church long ago and were giving to Brad's cookie jar.
ReplyDeleteThat's all we are asking of the board. Is to show Gods people - the members what happened.
Wow! Such bitterness from people who sin just like Brad did. Maybe you didn't have an affair, but you are human so you sin every day. God doesn't have a "points" system for sin so why do all of you? As for Jana living with her husband so soon after his announcement. It's none of your business. My spouse had several affairs on me before I found out and I chose God's way to mend our marriage - he cheated for 10 years - I forgave and he moved back in after 4 months. Who are you to judge if you have never been in that situation? Many many bitter comments many many false accusations here - I sincerely hope everyone remembers, "what goes around, comes around" remember these bitter words and horrific behavior when your life falls apart and then please "blog" about how you are handling all the nasty lies and gossip. Maybe we should all pray that Brad has hit rock bottom and gets his life together and becomes the man God wants him to be and pray for Jana and the kids that they find peace and healing and forgiveness.
ReplyDeleteThe board must have all rehearsed that line, because that's what you get from them ALL. They want to talk one on one, about nothing but vagueness, in hopes it will sooth the masses. What would happen if they stood in front of the church body and had to answer our questions? Show accountability? Admit to what they knew and didn't?
ReplyDeleteForgiveness doesn't excuse their behavior
ReplyDeleteForgiveness prevents their behavior from
destroying your heart.
Everyone needs to find peace about this that
doesn't mean people should not be held
accountible for their actions
In order to forgive, there has to be sincere confession and repentance and that means completely turning away from your sin and not repeating it. Read your Bible.
DeletePathways Board!!! Listen!!!!!!!! Make a public proclamation of your mistakes and how you intend on fixing them and what have you put in place to make sure this does not happen again. I tell you this from experience. Do not hold private secretive meetings. The best policy is open air discussion. I know this is hard but if you want to save your church you must be transparent on a public level. Do not try to do "damage control". This only makes you look guilty of a cover up. Come clean ask for prayer and begin the long process of healing.
ReplyDeleteAnother person began blogging about this whole ordeal. Visit her blog at http://joiepirkey.wordpress.com/2013/04/
ReplyDeleteShe makes a very good point about Larry Liebe and Steve Tripp. They need to be removed!
"ASSEMBLIES OF GOD
Brad Liebe’s father is Larry Liebe. Larry Liebe, several years ago, was voted in as the Wisconsin district superintendent. Until that time, Larry had served as the District Youth Director.
Upon Brad’s taking the position at Pathways Larry Liebe and Steve Tripp (District Youth Director in the AG), both district leaders, started attending Pathways~ a non-AG church. Steve Tripp is reported to have served on the board at Pathways at one time, and was featured in promotional videos for the church.
Larry Liebe and Steve Tripp are in violation of the AG bylaws but have also, in effect condoned Brad’s previous affair and money embezzlement in FL by following him to Pathways. It is hard for me to fathom that those who oversee Brad and Steve could possibly agree that while they represent and shepherd the AG denomination in our area, a blind eye should be turned to attending a non-AG church whose pastor was disciplined and removed from the Assemblies of God. The message this speaks to the body at Pathways is that everything is ok and gives Brad a level of credibility that he simply does not have.
AG bylaws Article IX, Section 9-10:
Section 9. Ministry in a Non-Assemblies of God Church
Ministers shall not be limited or restrained from entering open doors to preach this Pentecostal message, so long as they retain Assemblies of God doctrine, standards of holiness, proper attitudes, and proper ministerial conduct without compromise. Inasmuch as unity is a vital principle for growth and spiritual development of the Assemblies of God Fellowship, it is essential that we recognize our relationship to each other and that we practice Christian cooperation in all our pastoral, evangelistic, missionary, and local church work.
We recommend therefore that our ministers confer with district council officials before engaging in ministry in any church group or organization not affiliated with the Assemblies of God so as to ascertain whether such ministry might result in confusion or misunderstandings. If the minister does not have district approval, he or she shall be expected to refrain from conducting services for the church. Ministers who violate this principle shall be subject to discipline.
Section 10. An Improper Attitude Toward Those Removed From the Fellowship
In order to render effective decisions made in the interest of proper discipline and for the protection of our assemblies, all who hold credentials, and local churches holding certificates of affiliation, shall refrain from taking an attitude toward offenders that would tend to nullify or set at naught the solemn verdict of those entrusted with this responsibility. Those who fail to support said verdict shall be subject to reprimand or, if persisted in, appropriate discipline."
Part 2 of my last comment
ReplyDelete"Now as we see in Section 10, due to the revocation of Brad Liebe’s credentials by the Assemblies of God, it is improper for the district officials to give approval to his ministry, seriously undermining the verdict given by the general council when Brad was removed from the Assemblies of God. The bylaws maintain a level of accountability to the scriptures and to the leadership in place over these Pastors, however, Brad and his father and those closely associated with him are following another course that contradicts even that which they signed to uphold. I point this out because again we see even church leadership following their own course outside of the headship of Christ.
I wondered about Grace International as well and why in the world they would miss the leading of the Holy Spirit and a clear mandate in scripture that a leader should be:
2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. 7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. ~1 Timothy 3:2-7 NAS"
where are the new posts going?
ReplyDeleteIt appears that the comments section on this page is totally full now. I have posted everything that has come in today, Friday, April 12th (and everything before that too) but I don't see them here. I will try to open up a "Spiritual Wisdom is Good Part 3" which will show up as another blog posting. In the meantime, don't try to post anything else just yet. Wait until I can get a Part 3 page up and put it there. I don't know if I'll be able to retrieve what I posted (but it did not show up) or not. I will try to though. I have had to go back and delete some comments just to make room for this statement. I just picked them sort of randomly. I've tried to keep the important ones on here.
ReplyDeleteNO MORE COMMENTS ON THIS PAGE. THERE IS NO MORE ROOM TO POST THEM. THEY ARE NOT SHOWING UP IF POSTED. PLEASE GO TO THE NEW PAGE WHICH SHOWS UP AS A NEW BLOG TITLED "SPIRITUAL WISDOM IS GOOD - PART 3" AND POST YOUR COMMENTS THERE. IF YOUR RECENTLY POSTED COMMENT FROM TODAY HAS NOT SHOWN UP HERE, THEN PLEASE REPOST IT ON THE NEW PAGE.
ReplyDeleteVery well said. I have been a part of FROG in Ft Myers for many years and though we indeed have moved on, great damage was done by Brad Liebe. It saddens me that Pathways did not heed our warning and that they now are suffering the way we did. My real sadness however is that Brad has not reached his bottom and I you have no idea what it will take to get to that place.
ReplyDelete